Especially for Pran - Spark Ignition Muzzleloader

[mehulkamdar]

Pran and I have been discussing spark ignoted muzzleloading firearms offline and he has also been in touch with Mark on this. Until now, these were mostly experimental guns made by some of the big names in muzzleloading gunwriting. Now, CVA has introduced one as a commercial product.

This is a real innovation and I'm hoping to check one out in the flesh soon.

Cheers!

[Pran]

Good find, Mehul.

What impressed me most is the 'Lifetime Warranty' these guys are offering.

This is a real innovation and I'm hoping to check one out in the flesh soon.

Looking forward to your reviews once you're done.

Thanks.
Pran

[mehulkamdar]

Pran,

There are none in the stires as yet and I suspect that we won't see any until late in the fall, just before deer season in these parts. That said, as a new convert to muzzleloading, I'll certainly be checking one of these out and probably will buy one - if I could get more conservative stock colours. The present camo scheme looks too garish for my old fashioned tastes.

I don;t think the lifetime warranty is unusual at all. CVA have a very good reputation in these parts. And, considering what penpusher posted here some time ago, this rifle could be imported into India if someone wanted it. Muzzleloader imports are still legal.

Cheers!

[penpusher]

Mehul,

Can you use black powder in it or does it require smokeless powder?

penpusher

[Grumpy]

Damn ! I meant to comment on this thing round about last Christmas but forgot - I`ll spare you the jokes about `ignition by Champion` and the like..........
You don`t have to buy it in Real Tree camo Mehul because it also comes in black.............( Trying to think what it was that I saw earlier this morning that is now offered in a Desert camo..........Ah yes, the Walther G22. Looks...........weird. Better than `Real Tree` though. )
Apart from the ignition system the rifle is quite conventional and therefore intended for use with black powder or `synthetic` black powder substitutes like Pyrodex - definitely NOT with smokeless nitro powders........The lifetime warranty does have some provisos and using nitro powders would immediately void it.
People were discussing electronic ignition for black powder guns at least 20 years ago and I`m amazed that it has taken this long to get a suitable system into production. It`s a very good idea/system and deserves to be a success.

[mundaire]

penpusher,

I could be wrong but I do not see any way a spark ignition system could produce a powerful enough spark to properly ignite a smokeless powder charge. Should be a BP / pyrodex charge being used here...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[mundaire]

Oops, Grumps beat me to it...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Pran]

Found this article about electronic ignition system for MLs interesting

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7197843.html

Pran

[mehulkamdar]

penpusher,

AFAIK the only ML that is certified for use with smokeless powder is the Savage 110 which is conventionally ignited with a shotgun primer.

Grumpy,

Actually, my offline discussion with Pran on this subject started when we began talking about Sam Fadala and others' experiments with spark ignited muzzleloaders in the late 70s. I guess ML shooters are a traditional lot and that is why this did not take off for a long time.

Abhijeet,

There have been electronic ignited systems for smokeless ammunition of several kinds. Krico had one in the 80s for conventional rimfire ammunition and Voere and Heckler und Koch had them for their caseless cartridges. Remington developed an electronically ignoted primer and ignition system for conventional rifles. Again, with most shooters being a very traditional lot, these things were commercial failures.

Sad, because the Voere system in particular had accuracy comparable to tbe best benchrest rifles of it's time and was a lightweight sporting rifle. You might think that the performance would have had people lining up to buy them...

Cheers!

[penpusher]

Mehul,

Smokeless powder is not available for sale to civilians in India.Blackpowder is what you get here.

penpusher

[mehulkamdar]

penpusher,

To be honest, though I could pick up a Savage 110 here cheap and off the shelf - no 3 day waiting period even though it uses Smokeless, I have not bothered. And neither have 99.99% of ML shooters in the US. I think the whole process of shooting an ML rifle/shotgun is fun with black powder. It is traditional, it is fun and the clouds of smoke that the gun throws out with every shot are the icing on the cake.

In most states here hunting with a smokeless ML rifle is not permitted in muzzleloading season as well because they realise that these rifles are little more than good old centrefires without a case.

I do think that if someone were to buy an ML rifle they would do well to buy only a BP one. They are so much fun that they become as addictive as heroin or crack cocaine with none of their minuspoints.

Personally, I think some of the ML sports that are popular here and in Europe could be introduced in India as well. We could beat the ISSF/NRAI monopoly on shooting sports and also offer some very advanced matches at much lower prices than the ISSF lot. A good inline ML rifle could be bought from stores over here for $ 100 and just imagine how cheap it would be if clubs in India imported them in bulk. The cheapest ISSF standard rifle would cost 20 times as much over here, and even more in India. Also ammunition for MLs is cheap, you can cast the bullets in your garage or kitchen, and a whole day's shooting from morning until sundown would cost less than putting one box of 50 ELey Tenexes through a fancified Anschutz or Walther. And, the accuracy that you can achieve from an ML rifle is phenomenal. The new electrocni MLs should be even better. I think less than 1 inch groups at 100 yards is going to be easily possible off a rest.

Just think of the possibilities, my friend. We could start a revolution in the shooting sports 9if this becomes more popular.

Cheers!

[penpusher]

Mehul,

Had not bothered about finding about the import of muzzle loading rifles due to the near impossibility of getting percussion caps for them.This changes things a bit.Will get down to getting all the info I can get on their import now.

penpusher

[mehulkamdar]

Good luck, my friend! Just don't bother about the list prices on the website. Most dealers will give much better offers when you buy through them, so the rifle should turn out a lot cheaper than the listed price though the price of a rifle and a bullet mould should make it close to the listed price for the rifle alone, I think.

Just let me know when you want to buy one - there are dealers who are good friends of mine and Mark knows some dealers as well. We should be able to get fantastic discounts for you.

Cheers!

[Pran]

Personally, I think some of the ML sports that are popular here and in Europe could be introduced in India as well. We could beat the ISSF/NRAI monopoly on shooting sports and also offer some very advanced matches at much lower prices than the ISSF lot.

Personally, i don't see the point in the Government asking people to have an arms license to possess a ML.Things will be a lot better once MLs are given the same status as air guns.

Pran

[mehulkamdar]

Pran,

I agree with you 100% but that, unfortunately, is not going to happen anytime soon. On a more positive note, a good beginning could be made by not limiting the number of muzzleloaders that could be possessed on a single ML license. I do think that by encouraging the air rifle and Muzzleloading sports, more people could be drawn into the shooting sports and then we could get them to form a body of pro gun voters prepared to vote their sport.

In most cases, people who have actually tried any of these sports become fast supporters even if they were antis earlier. Yes, there will be the IANSA jokers and other sundry thugs, but they can be beaten. We just need to organise shooters better.

Hopefully, with the permission available to ML shooters to import modern ML guns, we shall see the sport develop further.

Cheers!