combat rifles: countdown

[hamiclar01]

follow the links in the right hand column for the full, sensationalised (discovery!! surprised?) countdown.

i know everyone would have their own opinions on the matter, but well worth a look, specially if you've missed the original programme

have fun

anand

[Grumpy]

Nice to see the Indian troops in combat alongside the British - all too often forgotten about.
The rating of the Lee Enfield in third place seems quite fair.....and accurate. The M16 at number 2 is just bizarre though. A good rifle but underpowered. I wonder if the 7mm/.280 cal replacement is going to be built on the AR15/M16 format ? That could easily be the best combat rifle ever.

[hamiclar01]

The M16 at number 2 is just bizarre though.

.......... could be because of Discovery channel's fixation with Tutankhamen, the Apache longbow and the M16. Nine times out of ten when i flick to Discovery, it's either one of the three flashing across the screen

[Grumpy]

There`s a lot in what you say.......We tend to distinguish satellite channels by their content so there is the Tutankhamen Channel, the Top Gear Channel, the Pint of Lager and a Packets of Crisps Channel and so on. Terrestrial channels are easily distinguished by their obsession with reality `talent` shows and the like.
It`s all to do with economics........Rehashing the same material in as many ways as possible so that as little money as possible is spent. The most annoying thing about the Discovery Channel ( and the History Channel.....or the `War` channel as we like to call it......as opposed to UK History which is the WWII Channel ) is that a lot of the programmes could easily be shown be shown in 15-20 minutes maximum instead of an hour because they are hugely bulked-out with repetition.

[mehulkamdar]

Grumpy,

Barrett have made small numbers of the M 16 A 2 chambered for the 6.8 SPC round for forces fighting in Iraq. At the same time, some units have also been issued M 14s as seen in pictures released from the region. I would not be surprised at all to see a rethink of the current service rifle some time in the future.

As far as the Lee Enfield is concerned, consider me very positively biased. Mons showed the world how phenomenally effective the design was in the hands of the British Expeditionary Force. One only has to work the bolt on an Enfield alternately with that on a Mauser/Springfield or whatever to see how much better a platform it is for fast repeat shots. Add to that the low recoil and you have, perhaps, the highest rate of fire in any bolt action service rifle in the hands of a trained soldier.

As someone who does not care much for military stuff but loves sporting firearms, this article by Ganyana Don Heath in Afrcan Hunter beautifully describes the advantages and disadvantages of the Lee Enfield anf the Mauser in the field vis a vis other more modern actions.

I'm sure all of the moderators here have read this piece, but for those who have not and who are interested, it is a superb article and well worth reading.

Cheers!

Cheers!

[Grumpy]

Having read the Ganyana article more than once I can thoroughly recommend it.

The 6.8 S.P.C. has to be one of the weirdest calibres possible. It`s based on the old ( really old ! ) .30 Rem which is, to all intents and purpose. a rimless .30-30 Win. It offers .243 Win energy ( c.1700 ft lbs ME ) with a slightly heavier 115 gr bullet in a .268 calibre. I really hope that it is rejected as a replacement for the 5.56 NATO because the BC and SD really stink the place up due to the bullet being ridiculously light for calibre. This means that for effective performance against body armour the bullet is going to have to have a steel or tungsten core which is unnecessary and unnecessarily expensive. The 6.5x55 was introduced 115 years ago and totally outperforms the 6.8 S.P.C. but it would seem that a cartridge of comparable performance is beyond the capabiliity of the contemporay soldier to manage......even though the 6.5x55s recoil can only be described as `moderate`.

[TwoRivers]

Grumpy: A 115 grain 6.8mm/.277" bullet has the same sectional density as a 75 grain .224"/5.56mm, or 142 grain 7.62mm/.308"; so it's a step up from the current 62 grain. What has to be remembered, that this is a COMPROMISE, dreamed up/developeded by some SF NCOs, to provide more oomph on the M16 platform, with minimum change (boltface and barrel). Cheers.

[Grumpy]

So what ?
There`s plenty of choice for a superior compromise retaining the M16 platform without having to cobble-up a piece of crap like the 6.8 SPC.