Weird Query
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goodboy_mentor
- Old Timer
- Posts: 2928
- Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:35 pm
Re: Weird Query
What you are saying is true but it is also true that a journey of thousand miles begins with a single step in the right direction. The steps in the right direction have to continue.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992
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AgentDoubleS
- Poster of the month - Apr 2015
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:12 pm
- Location: Here and there..
Re: Weird Query
Hi Chandan,
I am in no way attempting to question your ideals. I hope I don’t come across as preachy or someone taking the high moral ground. This is just a discussion and all I am doing is penning my thoughts down.
The strength of a movement, the probability of bringing about positive change in a society does not depend on the statistically measurable number of people that are behind the movement. It depends on a more subjective aspect- the resolve of the individuals and their dedication to the cause they stand for.
My cause is not to encourage people to be armed. I write and speak to people to make them aware that this is an OPTION that they have the RIGHT to exercise. People need to be informed of what the Arms Act stands for and how the Hon’ High Courts have supported people who have stood up for their rights. Once they are well informed, the choice to bear arms or not is entirely theirs. There are quite a few who might not choose to keep a firearm and I would completely respect that.
You rightly mention that there is a small fraction of the society that will apply for an arms license. The population is low because of the misconceptions about law, because there are unnecessary hurdles that have been created in the process and because the entire system has been controlled to spike prices and curtail availability of firearms- but most importantly because we have gotten used to succumbing to the pressures of a corroded system.
I do not want to turn this post into a political debate but cannot help and put a link that I just loved. All through the while I read this article RKBA was on my mind-
http://m.indianexpress.com/news/while-w ... t/1140199/
Source: Indianexpress.com
“Then they came after freedom. They promulgated more restrictive rules for everything: freedom of expression, right to assembly and protest, foreign scholars. They used sedition laws. They kept the architecture of colonial laws intact.”
The corroded system does not thrive on a mass failure of conviction. It thrives on the failure of the next individual that it interacts with, one by one it spreads the virus and it begins to infect everyone around.
The positive side to thi system is that for each individual who fights the system- the corroded system gets healed. It does not take masses- just one individual at a time, one by one, slowly but surely- the system heals. What is most important is that each individual stands up against what is wrong. This is called a revolution. Statistics then become irrelevant.
Cheers,
SS
I am in no way attempting to question your ideals. I hope I don’t come across as preachy or someone taking the high moral ground. This is just a discussion and all I am doing is penning my thoughts down.
The strength of a movement, the probability of bringing about positive change in a society does not depend on the statistically measurable number of people that are behind the movement. It depends on a more subjective aspect- the resolve of the individuals and their dedication to the cause they stand for.
My cause is not to encourage people to be armed. I write and speak to people to make them aware that this is an OPTION that they have the RIGHT to exercise. People need to be informed of what the Arms Act stands for and how the Hon’ High Courts have supported people who have stood up for their rights. Once they are well informed, the choice to bear arms or not is entirely theirs. There are quite a few who might not choose to keep a firearm and I would completely respect that.
You rightly mention that there is a small fraction of the society that will apply for an arms license. The population is low because of the misconceptions about law, because there are unnecessary hurdles that have been created in the process and because the entire system has been controlled to spike prices and curtail availability of firearms- but most importantly because we have gotten used to succumbing to the pressures of a corroded system.
I do not want to turn this post into a political debate but cannot help and put a link that I just loved. All through the while I read this article RKBA was on my mind-
http://m.indianexpress.com/news/while-w ... t/1140199/
Source: Indianexpress.com
“Then they came after freedom. They promulgated more restrictive rules for everything: freedom of expression, right to assembly and protest, foreign scholars. They used sedition laws. They kept the architecture of colonial laws intact.”
The corroded system does not thrive on a mass failure of conviction. It thrives on the failure of the next individual that it interacts with, one by one it spreads the virus and it begins to infect everyone around.
The positive side to thi system is that for each individual who fights the system- the corroded system gets healed. It does not take masses- just one individual at a time, one by one, slowly but surely- the system heals. What is most important is that each individual stands up against what is wrong. This is called a revolution. Statistics then become irrelevant.
Cheers,
SS
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Chandan22
- Almost at nirvana
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:45 pm
Re: Weird Query
Hello,
Totally agree with you and appreciate your stand !
Eloquently put...
My only reservation remains thus...
If a system is putting a hurdle in my way to achieve something, then I would think that if multitudes find a way, any way to overcome those hurdles, defeating the very purpose of the system putting those hurdles, then the system must, by implication remove those hurdles.
So if despite having the RKBA, the govt and police puts lots of hurdles in our path, if significant numbers find ways to overcome those hurdles, whether through a steadfast and determined approach by the book, or by shortcuts or whatever, then at some point of time the govt/police will also perhaps realise that the hurdles are hurdles no more..
But then again, this is an academic point. Its outcomes are not really known. The stand you are propounding has numerous examples in history, with some spectacular successes. Just that recent history for me shows that people take a stand, big changes happen but somehow in the long run the systems somehow come back. And usually that time frame is more than one lifetime. So its somewhat natural for one to think in terms of how to maximise their life experiences, which may neccesitate short circuiting the system hurdles.
And no, your not coming across as preachy. Its an interesting discussion...
~Chandan
Totally agree with you and appreciate your stand !
Eloquently put...
My only reservation remains thus...
If a system is putting a hurdle in my way to achieve something, then I would think that if multitudes find a way, any way to overcome those hurdles, defeating the very purpose of the system putting those hurdles, then the system must, by implication remove those hurdles.
So if despite having the RKBA, the govt and police puts lots of hurdles in our path, if significant numbers find ways to overcome those hurdles, whether through a steadfast and determined approach by the book, or by shortcuts or whatever, then at some point of time the govt/police will also perhaps realise that the hurdles are hurdles no more..
But then again, this is an academic point. Its outcomes are not really known. The stand you are propounding has numerous examples in history, with some spectacular successes. Just that recent history for me shows that people take a stand, big changes happen but somehow in the long run the systems somehow come back. And usually that time frame is more than one lifetime. So its somewhat natural for one to think in terms of how to maximise their life experiences, which may neccesitate short circuiting the system hurdles.
And no, your not coming across as preachy. Its an interesting discussion...
~Chandan
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AgentDoubleS
- Poster of the month - Apr 2015
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:12 pm
- Location: Here and there..
Re: Weird Query
Hi Chandan,
You are absolutely right- achievement in sports will push the authorities to make the system more conducive. However, this might be restricted to sports only and might not extend to RKBA for protection. If we look at the current system this is exactly what has happended. Nonethless, I do agree that some progress is better than none.
My own experiences have been very demoralising as well. My license took nearly 1.5 years- inspite of a history of participation in shooting sports, my DSRA membership is pending since 9 months- I have no ammo to practice, my area validity extension is pending for more than 6 months- so I cant practice big bore- there is no 300m range in delhi, SAI officials are most uncooperative and the list continues.
Thankfully, just when I have been ready to quit, someone or the other has been able to come around and lift the spirits. I have met some great people on the way and made some good friends. I am sure you will too.
Good luck with your efforts- hope to see another renowned shot on this forum
You are absolutely right- achievement in sports will push the authorities to make the system more conducive. However, this might be restricted to sports only and might not extend to RKBA for protection. If we look at the current system this is exactly what has happended. Nonethless, I do agree that some progress is better than none.
My own experiences have been very demoralising as well. My license took nearly 1.5 years- inspite of a history of participation in shooting sports, my DSRA membership is pending since 9 months- I have no ammo to practice, my area validity extension is pending for more than 6 months- so I cant practice big bore- there is no 300m range in delhi, SAI officials are most uncooperative and the list continues.
Thankfully, just when I have been ready to quit, someone or the other has been able to come around and lift the spirits. I have met some great people on the way and made some good friends. I am sure you will too.
Good luck with your efforts- hope to see another renowned shot on this forum
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Chandan22
- Almost at nirvana
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:45 pm
Re: Weird Query
Hello,
Wow thats a long time to persevere... good for you.
I understand what you're saying. I went over to karni singh y'day to see the KSS. While it was easy to get in this time, last time I was sent back it only served to heighten my desire to get started. So I went over to the armoury to ask if they have weapons etc, which they pointedly told me they don't. They have some airguns, which are defective.
Then I enquired about membership and was told to collect forms from the Gate, where the security guards told me that they were under instructions to not give out any forms till 1st August. Since I was in a hurry, I didn't argue and came back. Will get back to them and make sure I get the form/membership ASAP.
But I take your point on self defence being not given the weightage it deserves for getting an arms licence. Its always been easy for our govt to use excuses to infringe upon civil rights. Terrorism in this case to restrict imports, reduce licences etc, while exactly the opposite may have served the purpose better. However, in the scheme of things I'm not sure how things will progress.
~Chandan
Wow thats a long time to persevere... good for you.
I understand what you're saying. I went over to karni singh y'day to see the KSS. While it was easy to get in this time, last time I was sent back it only served to heighten my desire to get started. So I went over to the armoury to ask if they have weapons etc, which they pointedly told me they don't. They have some airguns, which are defective.
Then I enquired about membership and was told to collect forms from the Gate, where the security guards told me that they were under instructions to not give out any forms till 1st August. Since I was in a hurry, I didn't argue and came back. Will get back to them and make sure I get the form/membership ASAP.
But I take your point on self defence being not given the weightage it deserves for getting an arms licence. Its always been easy for our govt to use excuses to infringe upon civil rights. Terrorism in this case to restrict imports, reduce licences etc, while exactly the opposite may have served the purpose better. However, in the scheme of things I'm not sure how things will progress.
~Chandan
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inplainsight
- One of Us (Nirvana)
- Posts: 471
- Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:14 pm
- Location: New Delhi
Re: Weird Query
Chandan,
Never take 'no' for an answer. Here are the forms, http://www.sportsauthorityofindia.nic.i ... le1060.pdf
I sent an RTI to SAI a few months ago. You can rent Shotguns / Rifles / Pistols from the armory BUT you need an endorsement on your Arms License...
Good luck
Never take 'no' for an answer. Here are the forms, http://www.sportsauthorityofindia.nic.i ... le1060.pdf
I sent an RTI to SAI a few months ago. You can rent Shotguns / Rifles / Pistols from the armory BUT you need an endorsement on your Arms License...
Good luck
Last edited by inplainsight on Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Safarigent
- Shooting true
- Posts: 991
- Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:52 pm
- Location: Delhi
Re: Weird Query
Use all the clout you can to get your license issued. Use all your clout to get all india validity. Use all your clout to get a sufficient ammunition quota. Then go shoot and win medals.
The beauty of using clout and connections is thet you dont need to lurk on idiotic online forums to ask for help about procedures and paperwork. The uncle who will make the phone call for you will also direct the chap at the end of the line to help you out in any way he can.
We all love the idea of things being nice and easy.
Hell, who doesnt?!
But if everyone went the nice and easy route, the problems faced by the multitudes would still remain.
So, dont expect to find an understanding soul on this forum who will agree with what you wrote.
All that aside, its always great to see more people interested in the sport. I always ask new chaps this question and will ask you too, have you given any thought to getting the ladies in your house to shoot? It makes a lot of sense from a self defence point of view and she wont grudge you your time at the range if she is also there shooting circles around you!
The beauty of using clout and connections is thet you dont need to lurk on idiotic online forums to ask for help about procedures and paperwork. The uncle who will make the phone call for you will also direct the chap at the end of the line to help you out in any way he can.
We all love the idea of things being nice and easy.
Hell, who doesnt?!
But if everyone went the nice and easy route, the problems faced by the multitudes would still remain.
So, dont expect to find an understanding soul on this forum who will agree with what you wrote.
All that aside, its always great to see more people interested in the sport. I always ask new chaps this question and will ask you too, have you given any thought to getting the ladies in your house to shoot? It makes a lot of sense from a self defence point of view and she wont grudge you your time at the range if she is also there shooting circles around you!
To Excellence through Diligence.
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Chandan22
- Almost at nirvana
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:45 pm
Re: Weird Query
Hello,
Yes, the problems of the multitude may remain, but at least it becomes one more step towards the authorities realising that their barriers are unrealistic as people will find ways around them even if they are not willing to accept the logic and reduce them themselves. But I guess we've flogged that horse enough in this discussion.
BTW, I wasn't looking for an understanding soul or endorsement of my world-view. It was a data point question which warranted a simple answer based on experience or hearsay, not opinions on whether or not my question was morally right.. but then it was nice to argue on the basis of logic and to some extent ideology. None of us can really end up changing the other just on the basis of a couple of online posts.
As for the lady of my house.. she's doesn't really share my interest in guns because of the usual reasons. But yes, I'm going to try.. as you said, it will only help me enjoy...
~Chandan
Yes, the problems of the multitude may remain, but at least it becomes one more step towards the authorities realising that their barriers are unrealistic as people will find ways around them even if they are not willing to accept the logic and reduce them themselves. But I guess we've flogged that horse enough in this discussion.
BTW, I wasn't looking for an understanding soul or endorsement of my world-view. It was a data point question which warranted a simple answer based on experience or hearsay, not opinions on whether or not my question was morally right.. but then it was nice to argue on the basis of logic and to some extent ideology. None of us can really end up changing the other just on the basis of a couple of online posts.
As for the lady of my house.. she's doesn't really share my interest in guns because of the usual reasons. But yes, I'm going to try.. as you said, it will only help me enjoy...
~Chandan