what british really learnt

[Grumpy]

lol, yes, a very nice man ......
Bloody useless and bloody arrogant as you say and he oversaw the humiliation of the navel defeat by the Japanese and the disaster of Russia`s WWI involvement.
TVR made some pretty cars and some very good cars but they had the reputation of being the most unreliable vehicles on four wheels. Not major blow-ups but stupid things ..... stupid things that that weren`t immediately/easily fixable ..... When they did go it wasn`t exactly unknown for bits to fall off the cars .... All down to poor detail and poor finishing.

[nagarifle]

thanks Grumpy and Timmy nice work, God save the Queen

[Grumpy]

What the British really learnt was to exile our misfits to Nagaland ..........................

[nagarifle]

or americas/ down under, the rest are have thermals willeies to keep their cold feet warm.lol

[timmy]

Quite interesting, that many "misfits" went both to Australia and to the 13 Colonies that became the USA, and that both nations became leading nations.

"Misfits" have a part in every migration, I suppose.

So unless one is one of the original folks living in the southern regions of Africa, every one of us are descended from misfits: we are all a special and unique human being, just like every one of the other 7 billion people living here!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_human_migrations

thanks Grumpy and Timmy nice work, God save the Queen

Given that I'm married to my Queen, I can heartily endorse this!

[Steve007]

With apologies to my American friends, the original Americans are still enslaved. Oh OK, not really enslaved, but on reservations and are trotted out as tourist attractions a la Wild Bill Hickock's Wild West show (I knew a native American exchange student once, and these observations are from talks with him. Things might have changed in the last 14-15 years, so I may be wrong).

You are, and you were wrong then. Talking with only one person on a subject leads one to over-emphasize the views of that person. Sounds as though you were talking to a gutless whiner with a welfare mentality. There are a lot of them around, and they are certainly not all --the term means something different here--Indians. Ok. American Indians, A minority of them live on reservations, and Buffalo Bill Cody's Wild West Show (not Hickock, a lawman who was shot from behind while playing cards in 1876) was enormously successful in Europe, making Buffalo Bill Cody an international celebrity. It ceased operating in 1906.

As for their being "native" Americans, they migrated from Eurasia to the Americas via Beringia, a land bridge which connected the two continents across what is now the Bering Strait.

[timmy]

Talking with only one person on a subject leads one to over-emphasize the views of that person.

It may certainly do that

Sounds as though you were talking to a gutless whiner with a welfare mentality.

Perhaps, or perhaps not. Many Native American tribes got a raw deal then, and given the general USA Citizen's whining about the behavior of foreign countries and the people who live in them (fill in the blank for the country of your choice), Native Americans don't do very much whining at all, when one considers the screwing over they got with regard to the myriad of broken treaties and what is now referred to as "ethnic cleansing."

In fact, having some experience living and working with Native Americans of several different tribes and pueblos, many of them work quite hard, live in difficult circumstances, and do not have a "welfare mentality," whatever that is. The folks I'm familiar with are true patriots, who always answered the call of their country's call, and served with undoubted bravery.

[youtube][/youtube]

Here's an interesting story about the American Hero, Joe Medicine Crow, last War Chief of the Crow tribe:

The mid-1600s to the late 1800s was an era of warriors and war chiefs. A warrior’s greatest honor, and thus his greatest aspiration, was to become a war chief. But this was no easy task. To become a war chief a Crow warrior had to complete four different war deeds. One, be the first warrior to touch an enemy during a battle. Two, take away an enemy’s weapon. The third war deed was particularly tricky — steal an enemy’s horse. The fourth war deed was to lead a successful war party. These were the Crows' four war deeds, and the other Plains Indian tribes had the same, or similar, rules for becoming a war chief.

A tribe would have had one main leader, also called a chief, but this was different than being a war chief. A tribe could have — and often did have — many war chiefs — all the men in the tribe who had completed the four war deeds.

Medicine Crow is the last Plains Indian warrior to complete all four war deeds, something he did as an Army scout in World War II.

Medicine Crow was inducted into the army at Fort Douglas, Utah, in 1942. “Naturally, I thought about the famous warriors when I went to Germany,” says Medicine Crow. “I had a legacy to live up to. My goal was to be a good soldier and to perform honorably in combat. But I did not think in terms of (attaining war deeds). Those days were gone, I believed.”

Medicine Crow, an Army scout in Company K, 411th Infantry, 103rd Division, earned his first war deed — leading a successful raid against the enemy — when he led a group of seven men across no-man’s land to retrieve dynamite that would later be used to blow up guns and pillboxes when the Americans pushed the Germans off the Siegfried Line.

Crossing the open ground was treacherous. For one thing, the ground was covered with land mines, some of which the engineers had marked, but there were plenty more that they hadn’t. Second, they’d be crossing open ground, exposed to German gunfire.

Medicine Crow led his men to the threshold of no man’s land, and the Americans threw smoke screen shells onto it to give them cover. Medicine Crow led his men into the smoke. “The Germans realized something was happening, so they began lobbing mortar rounds in our direction,” says Medicine Crow. They ran crouched low to the ground so they could see the small flags marking the land mines, says Medicine Crow.

Somehow Medicine Crow and all six men safely crossed no man’s land and reached the French Maginot Line, where they procured seven boxes of dynamite from the French. Medicine Crow then led his men back through the same no man’s land, this time each one carried a 50-pound box of dynamite. Again the Americans threw smoke shells to provide cover, and again the Germans, suspecting something was happening in there, lobbed mortars into it. All seven men made it back safely.

Medicine Crow didn’t realize it at the time, but he had just accomplished his first war deed: leading a successful war party and bringing back everyone safely. The dynamite was later used to blow up German pillboxes and guns after the Americans seized the Siegfried Line.

Medicine Crow accomplished his second and third war deeds two months later, in March 1944, when he played an integral role in capturing a German village.

While the main American force attacked the German-occupied village from the front, Medicine Crow’s assignment as scout was to sneak into the town from the rear and assess the position of the German troops and artillery. Medicine Crow entered the rear of the village without being noticed, he wrote later.

While sneaking through the village, Medicine Crow came face to face with a German soldier. The German soldier started to raise his rifle, but, says Medicine Crow, “my reactions were a bit quicker than his. I hit him under the chin with the butt of my rifle and knocked him down, sending his rifle flying. He reached for his rifle but I kicked it out of the way.”

The disarmed German soldier was at Medicine Crow’s mercy. “All I had to do was pull the trigger,” says Medicine Crow. But in order to maintain his secret presence in the rear of the village, Medicine Crow laid down his rifle and “tore into him.”

The German soldier, who was quite a bit larger than Medicine Crow, soon had him down on the ground, but Medicine Crow, who had been in dozens of playground fights during his public school days, knew just what to do. Medicine Crow rolled him over and grabbed him by the throat. “I was ready to kill him,” he later wrote.

“Then his last words were ‘Mama! Mama,’ ” says Medicine Crow. “That word, ‘Mama’ opened my ears, and I let him go.”

Medicine Crow and the German soldier had kicked up quite a ruckus during their fight, and Medicine Crow escaped through the rear of the village before more Germans came to investigate the noise.

Fighting the German soldier counted for two Crow war deeds. The first was knocking down an enemy, the second was disarming an enemy, which he did when he knocked the rifle out of his hands.

And still, Medicine Crow didn’t think of his accomplishments as war deeds. The war deed days were too long past, Medicine Crow says. “It didn’t even cross my mind that what I had done had been a war deed.” But he did view it as a brave deed that would have made his war chief grandfathers proud.

Medicine Crow didn’t accomplish his fourth war deed — capturing an enemy’s horse — until near the end of the war. Among the Crow this was the most respected of the four war deeds. “Even though I wasn’t thinking about counting coup, I had been looking for a chance to capture a horse,” Medicine Crow says. “To me that was the best thing I could do to prove I was worthy of my ancestors.”

Toward the end of the war, Medicine Crow’s unit started following a group of about 50 of Hitler’s SS officers who were on horseback. About midnight, Medicine Crow recalls, the SS officers took over a farmhouse and left their horses in a pasture outside. “We surrounded the small village, and the farmhouse, and we were going to attack early in the morning,” says Medicine Crow. “I was sitting there with the C.O. and finally towards morning I said, ‘Captain, I have an idea. If you give me five minutes, before jump-off, I’ll stampede their horses.’ ” His commanding officer agreed that it was a good idea.

Medicine Crow was no stranger to horses, and his horsemanship was excellent. He had grown up riding horses. “During the summer we all rode horses,” he writes in "Counting Coup," a memoir of his World War II days. “We’d spend a lot of time out in the hills catching colts and yearlings and breaking them. We also raced our horses. We’d race each other all summer on the straightaway benches, the areas of flat land out in the hills.”

Early the next morning, before sunup, Medicine Crow left to capture the SS officers' horses. He brought one other soldier with him, to open the gate. There were guards stationed outside the farmhouse. It was a dangerous thing to do, he says. “If they would have spotted me, they could have easily shot me.”

Medicine Crow crept past the guards in the darkness, crawled up to the horses and found one that he liked. “I told him, ‘Whoa whoa,’ ” says Medicine Crow. He made an Indian bridle from a rope he had brought with him for that purpose.

“I got on it, rounded up the other horses and I stampeded them out of there,” Medicine Crow recounts with a laugh.

The job of the soldier that Medicine Crow had brought with him was to open the gate when he heard Medicine Crow whistle. As Medicine Crow stampeded the horses in the direction of the gate, he gave the signal and the soldier opened the gate. “Then I gave a Crow war cry, and those horses took off,” Medicine Crow says.

Medicine Crow says it was the proudest moment of his life. “When we reached the woods and the horses started to mill around, I did something spontaneous,” says Medicine Crow. “I sang a Crow praise song and rode around the horses. I felt good. I was a Crow warrior. My grandfathers would have been proud of me.”

Germany surrendered in May 1945, and Medicine Crow was discharged from the Army the following January and returned to his home in Lodge Grass, Mont.

(from http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8655 ... tml?pg=all)

I feel proud to be an American and one of the reasons is because I share this country with Native Americans like these folks. If I can be an American with them, they can whine all they want, as far as I'm concerned.

As for their being "native" Americans, they migrated from Eurasia to the Americas via Beringia, a land bridge which connected the two continents across what is now the Bering Strait.

Well, certainly our Constitution does not grant Native Americans a bigger say in what goes on in this country than it does anyone else. I'm sure we all keep that principle in mind when we see immigrants from China, Mexico, Vietnam, or India (to name a few) who have just become citizens. They are just as American as we are, or the Native Americans I've mentioned. We're the only country in the world that's not a "people," but an idea. The closer we stick to that idea (We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.) the better off we are.

[essdee1972]

Talking with only one person on a subject leads one to over-emphasize the views of that person.

Buffalo Bill Cody's Wild West Show (not Hickock, a lawman who was shot from behind while playing cards in 1876)

Quite right, I admit. I know only one "Injun". Would like to know more, but didn't have the chance. Sorry about the mixup between the two Bills - Hickok & Cody. Even more shameful as I finished Cody's memoirs just a month back.

Sounds as though you were talking to a gutless whiner with a welfare mentality.

He might have been, but he had a degree from some Ivy League college and was doing his MBA in MIT Sloane and was an exchange student for a term at the same college in India where I was doing my MBA at the same time. MIT Sloane might have had "positive discrimination" for Native Americans, I am not aware!! One of his grand-dads died on Omaha Beach, and both his parents were professionals (doctors or lawyers or something). Lived in New York or New Jersey, not on a reservation in Nevada! Another "exchanger" at the same time was a descendant of one of the original "buffalo soldiers". Ex-US Army, a little older than most MBA students. He came out of Yugoslavia or somewhere with a bum leg and was being partly sponsored by the Army.

The picture of the King and the Tsar prompted a query in what passes for my mind - how did their Highnesses walk in all that regalia?? And did they earn all those medals they wore?