.32 NOT a manstopper!

[penpusher]

Sanjay

I foresee no problem in importing this ammo.

penpusher

[Grumpy]

"Grumpy's remark makes me curious... do courts in India penalise the use of certain "types" of ammunition?"

Abhijeet, my comment concern the probable attitude of Indian courts to the use of this ammunition for self-defence purposes. I suspect that it would be considered `excessive` and any user would face penalties.
As a matter of interest, are hollow point bullets allowed for defence use ?

[cottage cheese]

Having read very qualified opinions here at IFB and of course reading horrendous volumes of printed matter on the subject of pip-squeak rounds vs man stopper slugs(The printed paper for which is suspect is adding to deforestation...global warming... blah blah) one simple factor comes to obvious focus- That of general availability of ammunition types.

A majority of Indian gun owners will have to be satisfied with .22LR, .32ACP, and .32rimmed. It's as painfully simple as that. Arguments for bigger 'man stoppers ' is something that I consider(with utmost due respect to the advocates of the same) pretty pointless in the Indian perspective. Only a small 'elite' or fortunately connected gun owners may be able to have access to and own arms that fire the formidable man stoppers.

To make matters worse, most licensing authorities strictly permit purchase and ownership of a ridiculously small ammunition quota per year. As I see, most people will not be allowed to own more than 50-100 shots a year...

The only way (no matter how small the possibility) that the bigger 'small bores' like .32 can compensate for poor terminal ballistics is multiple shots. Now, how on earth is one supposed to get enough practice to exploit multiple shot techniques? Most outstanding range shooters in any case would mostly likely drop to below par performance in hi-stress and risk situations.... as would most people... I'd probably be so scared, if I had the presence of mind to pull my gun(If I happen to be carrying it in the first place!), I'd simply pop off rapid fire in the direction of my assailant...possibly with eyes closed.

As much as better qualified folks would frown on my last comment, I think the primal instinct to survive will take precedence over all other considerations legal or social in such situations. Where is the training or conditioning available in the country?

The Indian Gun owner stands between the devil and the deep blue sea.

How would my friends at IFG like to comment?

[art_collector]

50-100 shots is still decent. A friend from Assam told me that for his .22 rifle the quantity of ammunition allowed on the licence is 4/10 (think he told me its a rule there) ie 4 at a time and 10 during the year and his 22 IOF rifle has a 10 shot magazine. Strange laws

[mehulkamdar]

Cottage Cheese,

AFAIK you can buy ammunition at rifle clubs to practice shooting your handgun and that does not have any limit though you are required, of course, to use up what you buy at the range itself. That could be an option.

In the meantime, don't get particularly disheartened by the "low" power of the 32s or 22s. SOmething is better than nothing and, with these small calibre rounds, what you do get is superb accuracy. If you shoot your pistol/revolver well and could get a head shot off with either, it would not make a difference that you don't have a 10mm or whatever.

In the meantime, yes, please spread the word around about our group. We are trying to spread awareness about gun ownership rights etc in India and that is the only way we shall be able to pressure the government into repealing the 1984 Executive order. Yes, this is an extremely unjust and discriminatory order that goes far beyond what the British themselves did to disarm Indians. It is time for patriotic Indians to get together to comprehensively repeal it.

[cottage cheese]

50-100 shots is still decent. A friend from Assam told me that for his .22 rifle the quantity of ammunition allowed on the licence is 4/10 (think he told me its a rule there) ie 4 at a time and 10 during the year and his 22 IOF rifle has a 10 shot magazine. Strange laws

Hi Raks,
I'm from Shillong not too far form Guwahati... and yes... I wonder what kind of sub-morons think up such idiotic laws. If you've been following up on the news....some differnce that stupid regulation made in Assam. The insurgency is ten fold worse now than it was a few years ago. I can tell since I travel a lot in Assam. I can give you same tired story as well... militants don't bother with licensed weapons...nor do they, on a broad scale, bother to fiddle with the intricacies of NPBs and PBs. A few kilos of plastic explosive and some AKs and M20's for a show of force is adequate for their needs. The police is oozing over at close to 30 battalions Armed Police relatively well armed, and yet its total failure... all attempts at finesse have ceased. So its simply down to zero innovation eestoopido regulations like the ones you mentioned.

[cottage cheese]

Cottage Cheese,

AFAIK you can buy ammunition at rifle clubs to practice shooting your handgun and that does not have any limit though you are required, of course, to use up what you buy at the range itself. That could be an option.

In the meantime, don't get particularly disheartened by the "low" power of the 32s or 22s. SOmething is better than nothing and, with these small calibre rounds, what you do get is superb accuracy. If you shoot your pistol/revolver well and could get a head shot off with either, it would not make a difference that you don't have a 10mm or whatever.

In the meantime, yes, please spread the word around about our group. We are trying to spread awareness about gun ownership rights etc in India and that is the only way we shall be able to pressure the government into repealing the 1984 Executive order. Yes, this is an extremely unjust and discriminatory order that goes far beyond what the British themselves did to disarm Indians. It is time for patriotic Indians to get together to comprehensively repeal it.

Hi Mehul,

Thanks for the advice.

Rifle clubs.... Most people surprisingly don't what these are. In fact most places don't have them (Mostly out of ignorance) . My town had one way back in the 50's. That was way before I was born. For reasons not too clear, it went defunct and most of the members arms were deposited in the police armories or Malkhanas, from where officers and the like have been helping themselves to the nicer bits over the years. Fair one...since no body else seems to be intrested in owning or re-owning the guns.

Well, I've been meaning to bring this up in IFB but hesitated because I thought folks would thing I was beginning to get outlandish ideas( Like in some of those pimply teenager 'pretend to be SOCOM' forums)... anyway here goes... how do I go about rekindling or gettting a rifle club started? Obviously, it isn't a one person affair and to that end I think I can get together a number of interested, influential and monyed folks(If that's needed as well).

Predictably, the establishment in it's omnipotent-idiotic exuberance will consider us trigger happy good for nothings who dare to intrude into their happy hours... you have to experience their bitter arrogance to believe it. And of course no government or government servant will EVER admit he or she is wrong unless forced to do so by the court. Its a sub-culture that's been nurtured by our flawed system of governance and accountability...and that's not going to change in a hurry.

I would be glad if some one could offer some pointers in the right direction. After all guns are not outlawed so there shouldn't be too much administrative fur balling if we rake up the issue.

[diskaon]

no caliber is big enough for self defense. no caliber is too small for offence.

the 0.22 (mossad) is great for offence. One can sneak up to the "victim" and go pop or bang.. doesn't matter. In my opinion, a 12 bore 16" sawed off DBBL is the only "man stopper" even when not fired.

[marksman_dd]

i also agree .32 is not a good option,
but it's the only option...

[Vik]

What's the best gun? The one you have. .22LR is lethal as hell and punches well above it's weight when it comes to killing, as do some of the .32's. Notice I said killing, not stopping, the smaller rounds are not as good for self-protection but, since an assassin will probably shoot in the head, that doesn't matter a lot. It's all about placement. If you have a .32 hole in each lung, the heart or pretty much anywhere above the shoulders, you will die soon absent medical care. If the best gun is a .50AE but you aren't legally allowed to carry that, it's not the best gun.

[xl_target]

If you're concerned about "stopping power", the common self defence pistol calibers suck.
You want a centerfire rifle or a shotgun loaded with buckshot but they don't "carry" well.

On the other hand, you have to use what you have and having something is better than nothing.
One self defence coach insists that the handgun is handy, only in as much as it can help you fight your way to your rifle.