For all those who think thay can not handle a .45

[Moin.]

C'mon Guys.What does this thread say to a 20 year old joining IFG with a passion for firearms, shooting sports or edged weapons. The most knowledgeble and senior most members arguing over some you tube video !!! Timmy, TCDa, Mack, Tirpassion, WTP !!!!!!

[dev]

What was that song,'Its only words..."
C'mon guys enough of the punched noses.
I love the way WTP shared the video and it became such a hit.

[xl_target]

Ah Yes, Mack! But then i wonder, if it is to be 'The bridge on the river Kwai' or 'A Bridge too far'.

You're the bridge builder. You choose.

What about London Bridge?

How about this bridge?

[youtube][/youtube]

Yeah, its sappy but its still a classic.

[hvj1]

Tried imagining Mack singing this song to TC, and split my ribs laughing!

[Mack The Knife]

C'mon Guys.What does this thread say to a 20 year old joining IFG with a passion for firearms, shooting sports or edged weapons. The most knowledgeble and senior most members arguing over some you tube video !!! Timmy, TCDa, Mack, Tirpassion, WTP !!!!!!

It says that the old farts are 20 year olds at heart.

In my opinion it's the 'Gandhi's' on this thread who are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Sorry Vikram but the thread stays open.

[Mack The Knife]

How about this bridge?
[youtube][/youtube]
Yeah, its sappy but its still a classic.

It's gay! Yeah, yeah, I know...

Tried imagining Mack singing this song to TC, and split my ribs laughing!

Just for that, I will. Hey, TC, what's your phone number?

[hvj1]

Tried imagining Mack singing this song to TC, and split my ribs laughing!

Just for that, I will. Hey, TC, what's your phone number?

Cmon TC, PM your number and get me on conference, this I dont want to miss

[Skyman]

In case this does happens, please get it on tape.Then i never have to listen to Richard Pryor again!

[TC]

Mack The Knife,

Many members and mods have my number and we stay in touch. Any of them can provide it to you. But let me inform you that I do not wish to waste more time talking to you.
Contrary to your beliefs... I don't need to play hide and seek, on the internet or in real life. Nor do I have to visit this site in hidden mode or whatever.
My 722 posts since 2006 should make it apparent that I can't afford the time. Have to attend to priorities in real life.... Typical professionals
Since you have not come up with anything on the video (of the same kid) that I have posted twice, I believe there is not much left for me to say.


Timmy,
I read your posts in reply to hvj1's and mine...
Let me tell you something in unequivocal terms. To command respect one must first respect others. It applies to everybody, across all age groups and social and cultural background.
You have never shown any disrespect to me. But at no point of time did I show disrespect to you as well. Yes, I made a few sarcastic remarks but in no way can these be considered derogatory or personal. And, the forum rules do not say sarcasm is banned. So, your allegation is baseless and hollow. If you think disagreement or expression of personal opinion tantamount to disrespect then my friend you should stay away from all kinds of debates. And, If you are looking for Yes Men please count me out. I do not think there was anything derogatory in what I have just written.

You seem desperate to know what makes me an authority (your selection of words entirely, not mine) on what should be the right age for children to learn shooting.

Well with due humility let me assure that at the age of 46 I am still looking for knowledge but I already have those years of experience and exposure that makes me eligible to freedom of expression on guns and kids. Lets start with guns.
I have handled and fired more weapons (please include everything from air guns to tanks and artillery pieces) than most members on this forum, or any other forum for that matter, have ever seen or touched. I have enjoyed every minute. And I still do.
I have spent (still do whenever I get the opportunity) months with the Indian Army, Navy and Air Force and the paramilitary forces like BSF and special units like NSG. I have spent time on the Line of Control between India and Pakistan and various places in Kashmir at the height of tension, not filing reports for my paper, but gathering first hand knowledge of warfare from some of the best. I have traveled far and wide on business and pleasure and fired weapons in foreign shores. Many of my relatives live abroad and own weapons. I guess that make me adequately proficient by your standards.

Lets come to kids now. I was born in a huge joint family where the father of every child owns/owned more than one firearm. My father had three. So did his father. I went a step ahead and had four. Over the years my cousins and I have brought up kids without sacrificing our love for weapons in any way and trained the boys and girls to handle air guns and forearms as and when they reached the age and attained maturity. But certainly none of them seemed to qualify at six. As a professional journalist for more than two decades I have witnessed crimes committed by kids (and elders) and encountered possibly every facet of degeneration and change in social values in urban and rural India.

Well Timmy do I qualify to comment on guns and kids ? I will return to this post. Don't worry I will not leave till your thirst for answers has been adequately quenched.


Now coming to that poor kid and his father :
The video I posted clearly shows that the kid has such small fingers and palm that he cannot even hold the 45 the way it should be.
His trigger finger DOES NOT EVEN REACH THE TRIGGER. So he grips the pistol with both hands and somehow reaches the trigger with both his middle fingers and uses both trigger fingers instead to balance the pistol and keep it aligned with the target. In the process he is actually rests his triggers fingers against the moving slide.
Now is that something to commend or recommend ? Is the father, the ADULT SUPERVISOR in this case, doing the right thing by making a six year old hold a 45 the wrong way, use the wrong fingers and fire in rapid mode ?
Did the kid know what a pistol is and how to hold it when he was born? Certainly not. Whatever he is doing, that too the wrong way, has been taught by his father. Friends, if that is the kind of fatherhood some of you want to applaud then I will disagree. And I stick to every word I have said so far. If individual members want to seek clarification, I will offer that. But I will need time. Because, if I start writing a thousand words for every post on IFG my professional life will go for a toss



TC

[xl_target]

The video I posted clearly shows that the kid has such small fingers and palm that he cannot even hold the 45 the way it should be.
His trigger finger DOES NOT EVEN REACH THE TRIGGER. So he grips the pistol with both hands and somehow reaches the trigger with both his middle fingers and uses both trigger fingers instead to balance the pistol and keep it aligned with the target. In the process he is actually rests his triggers fingers against the moving slide.
Now is that something to commend or recommend ? Is the father, the ADULT SUPERVISOR in this case, doing the right thing by making a six year old hold a 45 the wrong way, use the wrong fingers and fire in rapid mode ?
Did the kid know what a pistol is and how to hold it when he was born? Certainly not. Whatever he is doing, that too the wrong way, has been taught by his father. Friends, if that is the kind of fatherhood some of you want to applaud then I will disagree. And I stick to every word I have said so far. If individual members want to seek clarification, I will offer that. But I will need time. Because, if I start writing a thousand words for every post on IFG my professional life will go for a toss

i will have to disagree with some of the above. The pistol is a tool. The kid, whose fingers are too small to hold the pistol like an adult would has somehow found a way to make that tool work for himself. Furthermore, he is able to work that tool well enough to qualify on the international circuit. Who are we to tell him that because he is not holding it like we think he should, he is in the wrong? The results of his matches speak for themselves.

Granted that as he gets older and his hands get bigger, he will probably change his grip. For now he seem to make that pistol do what he wants it to. I don't think I would be able to honestly tell him that he is doing things the "wrong way".

[Mack The Knife]

Our verbose member has conveniently left out the issue of....

"No matter how much parents may talk to their children about responsibility that comes with guns nobody should deny that a kid with a weapon knows very well that in his hands he holds the power to destroy and kill. What this can do to a child's brain and way of thinking as he grows up is anybody's guess. If 90 of such kids grow up into responsible citizens, 10 end up shooting people in public schools and movie theaters."

Stick to the point and you will have plenty of time for office work.

[timmy]

TC, you talk rubbish. You simply will not own up to your own words, and you have left such a trail of them here that your accounting for them could go on until doomsday, given your ability to churn out talk.

If you think disagreement or expression of personal opinion tantamount to disrespect

You have been repeatedly told that you can offer whatever opinion you want, but your problem has to do with your being disrespectful, not your opinions. Your persistent twisting of words, like implying that I accuse you of disrespect because I disagree, shows that you will not own up to your boorish way of treating people -- you always twist words to set up your own straw man attacks. "If" all you want with your sly innuendo, but your juvenile tactics are as transparent as glass.

you should stay away from all kinds of debates

Debate? Is that what you call what you've said in this thread? You have interviewed too many politicians.

My 722 posts since 2006 should make it apparent that I can't afford the time. Have to attend to priorities in real life.... Typical professionals

"Typical professionals"? Wow, you really said that? Can you possibly be so full of yourself? Since you are taking time out from the lofty duties of your typically professional life, will you condescend to answer these questions?

Why, when you promised to bow out and leave this thread, did you return to stir things up again?

Does your return to this thread mean that your word is <ahem> "flexible"?

Why did you refuse to respond with your own qualifications until now?

When I responded to you with my qualifications regarding the upbringing of my own children, why did you say falsely and unjustifiably that I was claiming to set a pattern for what was best for every child?

Is putting words in the mouths of others the way you show respect? Is that the way "typical professionals" behave? Or are you the kind of person whose arrogance is so overpowering that nothing is barred from your bag of tricks, as long as you can perceive yourself to be the victor of petty arguments?

Does your flimsy excuse of providing possible interpretations of "we" show that you are unwilling to face up to your own clumsy use of words, or does it show the depths you will stoop to in order to avoid responsibility for your comments?

Does raising your four kids make you an authority on how to raise everyone else's kids?

You listed quite an impressive list of accomplishments, but in all those years in journalism, with all those experiences, with all those guns fired, and in all those places you've been, did you learn about rhetorical questions and forget what they are, or did you never encounter the term?

Are you answering the rhetorical question and saying, yes, you do know what's best for all?

(Just to spell it out for you, you don't have the qualifications to raise anyone else's kids.)

then my friend

When you engage in a gentlemanly discussion and spit in someone's face, is that how you treat friends? Or is this just another example of your precise use of words?

Why do you come barging into this thread, demanding that everyone answer your questions and provide facts and data supporting their views like you are interviewing some politician, while you act like you don't have to be equally accountable for your own opinions and views you post here?

Let me tell you something in unequivocal terms. To command respect one must first respect others. It applies to everybody, across all age groups and social and cultural background.

Do you not realize that making a statement like this after all that's been said indicates that you have portrayed yourself as a legend in your own mind?

You seem desperate to know what makes me an authority (your selection of words entirely, not mine) on what should be the right age for children to learn shooting.

Do you think anyone could possibly be desperate to know about you and your life of a "typical professional"?

Don't you know, or are you too obstinate to admit that you've been badgered and hectored on this point to allow you to display how lacking you are in gentlemanly traits?

In all the dealings with all sorts of people I've had here, I've never dealt with such unpleasantly arrogant person as you.

The biggest question now is when you will keep your word about leaving this thread for good (because you are so busy doing the important things that typical professionals do). Now you have started singing a different tune and are promising not to leave. Will you be able to come back and sprinkle more magic words that can be believed, one way or another?