Sikh Arms & Armour

[pistolero]

[pistolero]

In this Image we can see 3 kinds of "Khandas"

Right on top is the Firangi with the Basket Hilt
Followed by the Traditonal Broad Blade Khanda
Followed by the Patissa

[pistolero]

In conclusion, we can see the Khanda is a Straight Sword, with excellent weight and balance ratio, primarily meant for slashing but capable to be used as thrust weapon. In most cases we can see that Khanda is generally 30-32 inches in length, it is single edged from the top and is is double edged towards the tip.

Most Khanda's from the 16th,17th & 18th century have the spine supporting strips, from the Hilt running down towards the Tip, this not only strengthens the blade, but also provides flexibility towards the tip. The basket hilt, is another great addition, which is padded to decrease the shock of impact (you really need to swing the blades to understand the impact, and how much of an advantage the cushion provides)

The pommel, not only acted as a guard for the arm, but also provided an additional grip for a 2 hand strike. The impact of the blow would be far greater with the 2 handed strike, and the weapon in 2 hand combat, was held over the head and swung side to side, in its way the Khanda was the most formidable weapon of its time IMHO.

Moving ahead, I will try and post more about the Talwar

Look forward to participation from you all

[.32]

The great Sikh Martyr Baba Deep Singh ji Shaheed's Khanda weighed 30-40 Kg. He used this Khanda in battle against Muslim invaders.

[Moin.]

These are just myths .32. Such objects become so reverred that such stories and myths become common place like the sword of Tipu or Damascus Shamsheers being able to slice through rifle barrels. How can a sword with an approx 30, 32 inch blade weigh 30 or 40 kgs. Secondly it is not practical for someone to weild a 3 or 4 quintal sword in battle no matter how strong the person is.

[pistolero]

Hi Moin,

I do tend to agree with you on the weight of the actual weapons, wielding the same for prolonged periods of battle, would be a super human effort f, however Im posting an image here, which is a True Image, though it does defy logic



Imagine how big would the person be who was using those exercise clubs!

[.32]

These are just myths .32. Such objects become so reverred that such stories and myths sword in battle no matter how strong the person is.

Its normal for regular people to consider this as a "myth" but actually its a fact & well documented in history. The history as such is not too old. Have a look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baba_Deep_Singh

Baba Deep Singh was a living legend. Please do read more about him & his life, it shall be truly enlightening.

[.32]

I do tend to agree with you on the weight of the actual weapons, wielding the same for prolonged periods of battle, would be a super human effort f

Yes Baba Deep Singh Ji Shaheed was a "super-human". He fought the last battle at the age of 80-85yrs. Isn't this also "super-human"! He was saint-soldier.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Baba_Deep_Singh

http://www.rajkaregakhalsa.com/martyrba ... inghji.htm


A humble appeal to all, agreeing or not is uptp each individual but please do not make comments that could hurt someones sentiments. Baba Ji is kept in the highest esteem in Sikhism, people pray to him, he's God to many. Please google & read more on him...

[pistolero]

Dear .32,

Please accept my deepest apologies, if I have hurt your religious sentiments, at the very onset of this thread I had made it clear that, the objective is to discuss arms and armour and NOT religion.

I am well aware of Baba Deep Singh Ii and his achievements and I also understand, that his Khanda weighed 16 Ser, which would be about 15+ Kilograms, which in itself would be a massive and formidable weapon, and not 30-40 Kgs as mentioned by you.

I dont wish to go OT to discuss Religion and belief, that is not our intentions, the comments made, were not specific to any person, but was a general observation, based on the information supplied by you. I hope you understand that.

No one is questioning the ability of Baba ji in particular, but we are questioning whether it was "Normal" to have such a heavy sword, which we all understand, is not! Baba ji was indeed a saint, and he did indeed posses, superhuman strength and could weild this sword, but other mere mortals, I strongly believe would not be able to wield such a weapon in battle for long!!

Lets move ahead to discuss the arms and armours, which was our original discussion

[.32]

Dear .32, Please accept my deepest apologies, if I have hurt your religious sentiments, at the very onset of this thread I had made it clear that, the objective is to discuss arms and armour and NOT religion.

I am well aware of Baba Deep Singh Ii and his achievements and I also understand, that his Khanda weighed 16 Ser, which would be about 15+ Kilograms, which in itself would be a massive and formidable weapon, and not 30-40 Kgs as mentioned by you.

No one is questioning the ability of Baba ji in particular, but we are questioning whether it was "Normal" to have such a heavy sword, which we all understand, is not! Baba ji was indeed a saint, and he did indeed posses, superhuman strength and could weild this sword, but other mere mortals, I strongly believe would not be able to wield such a weapon in battle for long!!

Dear Pistelero, thanks for your kind words...++100. Even I never intended to take the religious course but just mentioned what little I knew about Sikhism & their connection with weapons. Also posted a part of a prayer by the 10th Guru in context to weapons(yehi hamare peer).

My bad on 30-40 Kg quote, its actually 30-40Lbs which translates into 14-15Kg. Still its pretty heavy for lesser mortals like me. So because we were discussing the weapons used by Sikhs & the Khanda in particular, I posted about the greatest Khanda used by the Sikhs.

For the record, I have great faith in Baba Ji. Sorry if I went OT & back to the Topic.

[Sakobav]

Folks

We forget fighters in that glorious era were hard working fit warriors unlike steroid pumped or couch potatoes like us..check Rana Pratap armor in udaipur and even thats heavy -- dont rely on video games or todays movies where they fighting like kungfu fighters in split second making slashes -- it was probably much more slow affair but the soldiers were remarkable physical specimen otherwise nobody would hire you...another reason why musketeers were looked down for many years..it were the sikhs and Maratha soldiers who took to guns and made effective use of them..example muslim Gen Ghardi of Maratha army at Panipat who never left the battlefield and was captured and tortured . Some exaggerations are common but with armor and their other lances etc these folks had to be fit to handle all that...I didnt believe this until I saw old armor in forts and some nihangs performing gathka with traditional heavy kirpans..sadly its hard to find a good strong talwar in Punjab these days

[Moin.]

I do tend to agree with you on the weight of the actual weapons, wielding the same for prolonged periods of battle, would be a super human effort f

Yes Baba Deep Singh Ji Shaheed was a "super-human". He fought the last battle at the age of 80-85yrs. Isn't this also "super-human"! He was saint-soldier.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Baba_Deep_Singh

http://www.rajkaregakhalsa.com/martyrba ... inghji.htm


A humble appeal to all, agreeing or not is uptp each individual but please do not make comments that could hurt someones sentiments. Baba Ji is kept in the highest esteem in Sikhism, people pray to him, he's God to many. Please google & read more on him...

.32, sincere apologies from me as well. Had no intention of hurting anyone's sentiments. Thank you for the links.

Regards
Moin.

[Moin.]

[ Image ]

In this Image we can see 3 kinds of "Khandas"

Right on top is the Firangi with the Basket Hilt
Followed by the Traditonal Broad Blade Khanda
Followed by the Patissa

The Patissa's quite intriguing, the hilt is not the typical hindu box hilt. I just looked up Egertons book and could only find one sample of this type of hilt in the weapons of the Rajputs. Any info on the same.

Now where is Katanaji

Regards
Moin.

[Moin.]

Hi Moin,

I do tend to agree with you on the weight of the actual weapons, wielding the same for prolonged periods of battle, would be a super human effort f, however Im posting an image here, which is a True Image, though it does defy logic

[ Image ]

Imagine how big would the person be who was using those exercise clubs!

Oh C'mon, a person would have to be 12-15 feet tall to exercise with that supersized club Intersting, where did you get that pic from ?

Regards
Moin

[pistolero]

Hi Guys,

I know this going OT but for our collective benefit some basic stats of Human Height & Weight

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#cite_note-61

It also note worthy that the Tallest person in recorded history does not come from Danish or Polynesian descent, which goes to show that there were several exceptions.

In India too there were several warriors who possessed immense strength, however if you notice the weapons, which are displayed in the Video Links in this thread along with the other photo's, you will see that most of them are not "super heavy" but weapons which we actually can pickup and swing.

The Vikings which are portrayed in history as warriors of immense size, were infact in and around 6 feet in height. Im sure that there were exceptions even in the Vikings of warriors who could be larger in size.

As I have said there are exceptions, and these people owing to their superior ability required weapons which were different from norm. Mohammad Ghazni possessed incredible strength, and it is said that no other person could lift his mace of the ground. Similarly no one other than Arjun could string the Gandiv

Hopefully I will be able to post on the Talwar soon and will try not going OT anymore.

Look forward to hearing from you all.

Regards,
Pistolero