The safety of women in Delhi

[winnie_the_pooh]

In Indian context even if women are armed there are issues regarding regular practice, quality weapons.. also not all can afford even if licenses are liberally issued.

By that logic,no one in India should have an arms license.

[Biren]

In Indian context even if women are armed there are issues regarding regular practice, quality weapons.. also not all can afford even if licenses are liberally issued.

By that logic,no one in India should have an arms license.

You have hit the nail Winnie... This includes even the constabulary:) Whats the use carrying weapon when the user is not trained or even if he is trained, he is out of practice. In such case weapon is liability then asset.

Let this country throw open the police, para military, army ranges to mango man, improve quality of weapons and ammo. This will help conserve resources, multiply force (more volunteers), bring sense of discipline and remove the taboo associated with Guns.

On topic speedy hard hitting justice as well a society where this chalta hae attitude finds no place.

Rgds,
Biren

[Safarigent]

She wasnt just raped repeatedly.
She was beaten up and finally the rod used to beat her friend and her was inserted in her v*g*na deep enough to rupture and harm her innards all the way upto the small and large intestines.
She was then thrown off the bus naked, with the rod still inserted inside her and no one came to her rescue on a busy thoroughfare.
When the police came, no one helped lift and carry the two poor souls into the police vans.
Politicians say, the laws are alright
Police says the law and order situation is under control
The injured public feels sorry and excuses itself of all responsibility
The media is already talking about gujarat when last night arnab goswamy was frothing at the mouth like a rabid dog that we wont forget etc etc.
After a lot of tippy tapping away on facebook and indiansforguns, we all too, shall move on to the next thing.
So, dear friends the problem isnt in knowing what punishment should be given. We all pretty much agree on that point.
The problem is how do we root out such malaise which has stained our moral fabric?

[boris]

I was shaken up the morning I read it in the paper, what happened to the girl is what radical terrorists do to torture their enemies and this happened in the capital city. If any Indian says women are respected in this country, I am never going to agree with him/her. Just thinking about it makes me feel, do we even deserve to call this place a modern society? I am so ashamed of the police not because of this one incident but because of their shit attitude towards rape cases in general. In my opinion IPS officers too won't care to answer much, they have the resources to send armed policemen with their daughters wherever they go and they do, they even take their AK-47 toting policemen in the morning when they go for their walk. How would they know about securing common people? The celebrities have their bodyguards and I pretty much believe the connections celebs,big businessmen and cricketers have, they can very easily get licences and maybe an imported firearm too.

Pepper sprays,tasers are not going to help at all. Arming them is the best and probably the only option. Even when I am putting this option, I think I live in one heck of an anti-gun society, I saw the opinion of Indians as far as the shooting in the US goes and boy everyone went after guns rather than the mental health of that nutjob. The police and politicians don't care much. With our gun laws, how in hell do we arm women? Who is going to wait more than an year for a license,shell out 1.5 lakh for an IOF pistol while waiting for 18 months and then be fine using a gun with 50 rounds per year. Two simple things can be done:

1)Just take away that darn import restriction, let buyers be able to buy the best on the market at the proper price, but then our great OFB will go mad as hell at this, I saw their amazing attitude when the Army decided to drop the INSAS for better rifles. Still take the restriction out, it hasn't done great for the government. Yes they can keep their PB/NPB law but a good .32 pistol is better than none at all.

2)Take off that crappy 50 round quota. It does nothing helpful. You still want to keep it then atleast let civilians use police ranges where they can buy police ammo for immediate range use only, that way at least one can practice well.

I have just mentioned two points, but just these two points is like a BIG BIG jump. I do not why the Supreme court judges who on every given day shell out their advice to the media regarding anything in this country, do not speak on issues of arming citizens for their own protections, are guns that big a taboo in this country that even the lawmakers feel best not to comment on them.

Take the US shooting for example, gun control loving senators want 30-round mag semi auto rifles restricted. I did read this but I was happy that they didn't go after handguns,shotguns because at a certain limit they do believe in RKBA,self defense(not Micheal Bloomberg though). My country well does not even believe in self defense,take this for example, a fellow in my colony came back from the US for 10 days to visit his parents. He mentioned that he got a permit, bought a handgun that he can use to defend himself. His parents said " If a guy threatens your life you'll kill him, are you crazy,you'll end up in jail", no doubt people do not know about the right to self defense in the US but just their thoughts on this in general made me vomit. My sister after living there for 7 years herself tells me, human life is not valued in India.

I don't want to live here at all as a normal civilian, I don't have police cover like an IPS, I don't live in an army cantonment, I am not a politico's spoilt son. I am just a common who knows how little his government cares for him and how "great" most of his fellow common folk are.

[ak27]

She wasnt just raped repeatedly.
She was beaten up and finally the rod used to beat her friend and her was inserted in her v*g*na deep enough to rupture and harm her innards all the way upto the small and large intestines.

Horrific! How could a human being do that to an Innocent girl? Reading those lines made me shudder and left me highly disturbed. I, as a human being, feel highly ashamed. Acts as such are not driven by 'lust' or impulse but by a sadistic, rotten-beyond-recovery brain. These people, in no way, qualify to be considered on par with Humans and the normal 'justice' does not apply to them. They should be completely destroyed and incinerated just like Malignant Tumors. No trail. Not for these demons.

[kdbanan]

Guys... Watch Zee news. People are actually demanding arms licenses so that they can protect themselves!!

[nbaztec]

I'm shaken by the entire incident since I live in the vicinity and by the sheer helplessness of the entire situation. We need guns in self defense. Heck, now even I want to go and get an arms license and get a pistol, but the cost doesn't permit neither do these dubious laws.

[TwoRivers]

How sad! Must say that I am totally with Tim on this one. As to the contention that rape is not premeditated, I have to disagree. It is premeditated, though not necessarely with regard to the particular victim. Who the victim is may depend on chance and opportunity. And, capital punishment, as is often stated, does not prevent crime. It isn't meant to do that. It is meant to prevent repeat offenses, and remove incorrigible offenders permanently from society. As far as I am concerned, a case like this calls for capital punishment. Never mind it won't give the fellows enough time to come to the realization that they did something wrong.

[hammersurf]

Since this incident, I am more pro to self help. I firmly believe that keeping a gun for self protection is the only way out as police and security agencies fail to be responsible.

Eve teasing / crime against women. I fail to understand why educated people are behaving like animals. just saw the video posted on Youtube

[youtube][/youtube]

though I dont trust the news channel but it seems to be the case.

[FN-Five-Seven]

I for one would totally in favor of Public Execution of the culprits in this case and such crimes .
If it was up to me , I would get these culprits tired in front of the India Gate , have petrol poured over them , and have them burnt alive .

We have had death penalty for murder for ages. Has it stopped murders?

Death penalty would have stopped or deceased the murders , IF death penalty was awarded to each and every murderer . Unfortunately , such is not the case . Just tally the numbers of murders committed every year to the number of Death Penalties / Life sentences awarded each year , you will get the answer . After years of fighting legal battles in various courts , the culprits are let loose due to "Lack of Evidence " . The Investigative Procedure , Judicial System and the Conviction Rate or the lack of it , emboldens the criminals further , and hence crime is on the rise .

Death penalty will only serve to make cellphone games and social media outbursts like the recent "Hang Kasab" phenomenon.

On what basis , have you concluded that the only purpose Death Penalty has served is to inspire some games on Andriod powered cellphones and some Facebook comments ?
The families and friends of those who lost their lives in the 26/11 attacks did not get the justice ?

Moreover, capital punishment by very definition is reserved for rarest of the rare cases, hence judges will be very cagey to award the same.

And this case is not a rarest of the rare cases ??? Is it as common as a scuffle after a fender bender at the traffic light ???

[AbbasRiz]

Friends,
My humble suggestion is as follows ;
We all should flood the Indian news channels with e-mails asking them ---

(1) to highlight urgent need on the part of the Govt. to arm maximum number of law-abiding citizens ( esp. women) by making arms licence within their easy reach.

(2) to invite experts from various fields (like, Judicial experts, Psychologists, police officers, fire arm experts) in their studio panel discussions , and try to make a consensus that, now in India, the time has come that every law-abiding citizen becomes legally armed so that he / she can face the Delhi-bus-rape kind of situation with iron hand.

(3) to urge the Indian Government to repeal the draconian laws governing issuance of firearm licences and draft fresh citizen-friendly laws so that law-abiding citizens can have easy access to self defending arms. The Govt. will certainly listen to Media Houses, because, currently In India, the so-called " Fourth Pillar of Democracy" has become very powerful and even Governments are afraid of them.

Regards,
Abbas

[hammersurf]

FN-Five-Seven, I totally agree with you - Public Execution but burning them alive will not be enough . the punishment should be brutal - to set an example.

Abbas, the only problem will be convincing media to promote self defense with firm arms instead of pepper spray.

Obama calling for the US gun control proposals next year will make things difficult for us in India. I hope by now all educated politicians (sarcasm) would be aware of what america is doing.

for protest today i.e Friday will be a observed as a BLACK DAY

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[Hammerhead]

Paper says the girl in hanging on, any updates

India police use water cannon, tear gas as gang-rape protests intensify

Mayank Bhardwaj, Reuters

First posted: Saturday, December 22, 2012 05:50 AM EST


NEW DELHI - Indian police used batons, tear gas and water cannon to turn back thousands of people marching on the presidential palace on Saturday in intensifying protests against the gang-rape of a woman on the streets and on social media.

The 23-year-old victim is battling for her life in hospital after she was beaten, raped for almost an hour and thrown out of a moving bus on a busy New Delhi street last Sunday. Five people have been arrested.

The protesters, largely college students, are demanding the death penalty for the accused and safety assurances for women.

New Delhi, home to about 16 million people, has the highest number of sex crimes among India’s major cities. Police figures show a rape is reported on average every 18 hours and some other form of sexual attack every 14 hours.

Appealing for calm, India’s junior minister for home affairs, R.P.N. Singh, said the government had listened to the protesters.

“We have assured on the floor of the house and on every platform possible that strictest action will be taken against the accused. The police have been asked to show restraint but I want to tell boys and girls that breaking barriers will not help,” Singh said.

But the protests are growing amid widespread media coverage.

“If Rahul Gandhi claims to be a youth icon then he should have been here, talking to protesters and taking up the issue of women’s safety,” one protester said.

Gandhi, the 42-year-old scion of the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty that has ruled India for most of its 65 years of independence, is widely seen as a future prime minister.

Marches, demonstrations and candlelight vigils have spread during the week to cities in states from the north of the country to the south.

In the northeastern state of Assam, hundreds of women and girls marched through the city of Guwahati on Friday, carrying placards and shouting

“Hang Rapists” and “Stop Violence Against Women”.

w.w.torontosun.com/2012/12/22/india-police-use-water-cannon-tear-gas-as-gang-rape-protests-intensify

How about demanding Right to self defense and Carry a Gun for self preservation

[essdee1972]

FN-Five-Seven, I beg to differ with you, but let's not debate this here.

My basic question is: Why is the mainstream media not talking about the need to prevent, by force, by the intended victim / bystanders? When the Thane top cop asked women to carry chili powder, he was met with a stream of ridicule by the women's groups and sundry organisations! I wonder what would have happened if a top cop asks women to carry guns! He would be lynched, in all probability!!!!!

And just for the record, I was picked up by a roving camera crew (NDTV) on Sat near Dadar in Mumbai. The lady asked me my views on this issue, I replied that "self defense is the best defense, women should take up arms" or something to that effect (whatever I could say in the 20-30 seconds). Yesterday, I kept the damn telly on NDTV the whole day, waiting to see my "15 seconds of fame". Of course, it didn't happen! There were reports of some protests close to where I was "interviewed", some other frames showing people demanding the highly-popular death penalty...... Censorship????!!!!

Are we such sheep that all we (not us on IFG, but the people in general) are asking for is more cops? Aren't we aware that women have been assaulted at home? (so where does the cop sit, in your bedroom or your bathroom?). Aren't we aware that people who are protected by hordes of cops and SPG and Secret Service types can't even go to the loo in peace? Are we ready to give up our privacy for illusory safety? And aren't we aware that cops can, do, and have raped. Aren't we aware that the "she was dressed for rape" feudality is trotted out most by cops, even female ones?

Unless that sheep mentality as mentioned by Boris changes, unless we, as a people learn from our own history, we are condemned to watch it being repeated, ad nauseum, more rapes, more murders. And then, as Safarigent says above:

After a lot of tippy tapping away on facebook and indiansforguns, we all too, shall move on to the next thing.

.

How can we (IFGians) help? Many of us are familiar with the processes for getting arms licences. We can let every woman we know about the same. Even if she doesn't want to. Many of us are familiar with other self defense techniques. We can at least gift a pepper spray, baton, taser, whatever to every woman in our lives, at least! Or maybe sign them up for something like Krav Maga? Personally, I have started sharing links on my FB account, in the hope that some lady will actually click through and get to at least thinking about self defense (some actually have). Small steps. (my wife already has a few pepper sprays and a Stinger, my home has a Rottweiler).

[perfectionist1]

It is such a sorry state of affairs, the rapist are let alone like that, while daily tens of gang rapes are reported on newspapers and TV.

Had they have been punished....