Shotgun cones and effect on solid shot,saboted projectile

Post by **eljefe** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:46 am

Hi Guys,
Am looking for info on
1.using solid projectiles in shotguns-12gauge specifically
2.Effect of the forcing cone-long/short on solid projectiles
3.Sabotted solids-using teflon sabots?
4.How to check out /measure forcing cones on a shottie
5.Ideal forcing cone lengths and reamers for extending, if required...

Before the legitimacy issue arises, it is a theoretical exercise, for the moment, only limited to paper and calculators and inputs from you guys.
Thanks
Axx

mehulkamdar · Post by **mehulkamdar** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:12 am

Asif,

Not sure if forcing cones on most shotguns have any adverse effect, but choke certainly does. I have read many articles which seem to indicate Improved Cylinder chokes for slugs with a warning not to use any constriction more than IC. Hope this helps.

Mehul

HSharief · Post by **HSharief** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:23 pm

I better change my chokes when I go deer hunting then. I've used Modified for shooting slugs without any noticeable (to me) damage. My latest "slug gun" is a Benelli SBE with which I hope (Insha-Allah) to harvest a deer this season.

I can't believe how much difference a thousandths of an inch makes.

axp817 · Post by **axp817** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:26 pm

"I can't believe how much difference a thousandths of an inch makes."

I agree. I keep comparing my chokes (modified and full) and they look exactly the same to me.

Post by **eljefe** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:23 pm

Thanks Mehul,
I remember reading an old winchester ammo handbook which stated that cement manufacture (in US?) involves shooting case loads of ball ammo into the kilns, by the workers, using plain jane, full choke pump (winchester of course

) to remove the accretions from the cement kilns!Dont know how much cement manufacture in US has changed since the 60's
The reason for all this was ,had this "lick-the-winter -woes" plan of picking up an elcheapo single shotgun and converting into a home defense piece.
I planned to slick it up, cut it down and used a reduced load 2" shell.
There was a problem anticipated-what if it was a 2 1/2" chamber? some sneaky source told me that ONLY 2 3/4 " ammo is available here!
So decided to use the reduced 2" load...Slicking up did include plans for opening up the forcing cones and if need be, the choke too, shorter barrel, truglo/laser/ tac light mounts.
After all that, saw a double made by Dwarka, a shorty with fiber pistol grip, which I think will serve my purpose-NOT with full load ammo, but with the reduced charge 2 incher.
Thought of having a projectile ( a teflon saboted, standard BMG 50 cal FMJ bullet )in one barrel and shot in the other, and was anticipating a longish winter

Any one ever tried salt loads with a reduced charge?
Now you really got me going...
Best
Asif

HSharief · Post by **HSharief** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:53 pm

Asif bhai, Here are some tips on speed shooting the SxS I borrowed from online.

http://www.jspublications.net/tips/SxSRight.html
http://www.jspublications.net/tips/SxSGrab4.html
http://www.jspublications.net/vids/SxS.wmv

Browse thru this website for lots of good information and videos. Please don't mind if you're already aware of these.

Post by **eljefe** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:15 pm

Thanks Sharief,
Informative.
I use the same technique as I do for the double rifle, 2 spare shells in the web of 1st and 2nd fingers of NON dominant hand.Break open the gun and snap it up or to the right ( I'm a right hander)-most times, empties are out-and then slide in the fresh load.The demo shows 2 shells being 'palmed' and inserted -gues this may aid in faster alignment with the bores...
Unless the brass expands baad, then they will have to be struggled and 'plucked out'.Will try to post snaps if I can lay my hands on a shot gun.
I'm assuming the shot gun will not have ejectors.

Best
Axx

HSharief · Post by **HSharief** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:36 am

Yes, you're Right. In cowboy action shooting, ejectors are not allowed, only extractors. I have a Winchester Model 24 that I used to use, I got the chambers polished and used newer brass so that the empties fall off with just a short jolt. I learnt that the smart use of the armpit of the strong side is very useful in keeping the shotty open while you struggle with getting the shells aligned and shoved down the tubes.

There are lots of "accurizing" that the gamers do to shotguns to make them slicker. Like, Open assist, STAY the hell open and wide, close assist, smoothing/widening/polishing chambers, longer ejectors, easier springs, etc....

mehulkamdar · Post by **mehulkamdar** » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:13 pm

Asif,

If you're buying a gun from Dwarka, please talk to Mr Lakshman Yadav the owner and refer my name. He is a very good friend of my family and was also my father's patient until my father retired. He should be able to help you even in UP as his family own several gun shops in Kanpur. Just call and discuss your requirements with him.

Cheers,

Mehul

Post by **Vikram** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:44 am

Jefe,

Posted elsewhere, these are the responses it generated.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtop ... 089#650089

Best-Vikram

Post by **eljefe** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:19 am

Thanks Vikram,
just the ticket from yogi and jeager...
Appreciate the info.No BS on how to shoot a projectile to the moon here.Will visit oftener!
Yes Mehul, Will do. Thanks for the contact info.At one time, I heard deprecative noises about the bellary made shotguns...wot the ell, if push comes to shove, it should go bang!
Best
Axx

Post by **Vikram** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:23 am

Once, I came across a Dwaraka Arms made 12 bore lever action gun.It was for sale in Hyderabad.The asking price was Rs.50,000. Wonder how it shoots.

Also, as far as I know, Dwaraka's Shaktiman express "Spherical Ball" cartridges are the only slugs made and available in India . Leave out accuracy, they are devastating within their range.They would plunge drastically at, say, 40-50 yards.I shot quite a few at bottles,cans and paper targets in a range.25-30 yards is the max where you can really have a reasonable bit of control on the placement.

Jefe, if you intend to use them on intruders or attackers or any self-defence situations, I assure you and trust me, they will exit almost intact and still carry a lot of momentum.This is in typical self-defence ranges.

Best- Vikram

Post by **eljefe** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:40 am

Vikram,
Its a thinly disguised attempt at owning a shot gun!And will start with the prayer of all gun owners -God, let me not have to use this on a human, EVER!

heard about the lever gun, sounds very "Terminator-ish" Hmm, wonder where my leather jacket and Harley are...

What's the logic about allowing manufacture of a ball but no LG/SG,I wonder?
Atleast I have a first hand report from you about the performance of the ball.I plan to down load , reduce the powder by 50% and cut the shell size down to 2".Else I 'll have to buy a gym to be able to shoot a pistol grip shorty 12 with full power loads

Lots more research to go into this-especially availability of simple tools here to be able to start the project.Also ,have to find me somebody to do EDM and kind of vent the barrels for a muzzle brake...
Initial plan was to use a castlead, 50 BMG bullet copy, suitably shortened in length, enclosed in a .625"-.627" nylon or teflon sabot.Will have to play around with sabot length-fully enshrouding the projectile seems best bet.
All this will have to be accomodated in a shotgun shell-so May have to keep original 2 3/4 " length and reduce the powder load.
For the reduced length 2" shell, will reduce the powder charge by half and try to use the ball.
Have been quoted 23k for this pistol grip shorty.

Keep it coming Guys.
Best
Axx

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Shotgun cones and effect on solid shot,saboted projectile

Shotgun cones and effect on solid shot,saboted projectile