Precihole Offerings

[brihacharan]

. I have no connection with Precihole - although the Bangalore rep is a good friend of mine.
regards, Ashok

Hi Ashok,
> Firstly a 'good & objective review' of Precihole's AR, congrats
> Secondly the motely group who reviewed Precihole's ARs way back during its initial test run (3 months ago) stand vindicated - I quote " To test whether rice is cooked in the pot, one does not have to put one's entire hand into it - Just pick a few grains from the top & you will know"
> It's understandable that many who are not quite familiar with Air Rifles & new to the forum ask questions
> Any new product that enters the market is always viewed with a bit of 'skepticism'
> Nevertheless - Precihole has made a breakthrough by providing a lot of plus features that are absent in other Indian makes.
> I have no connection with Precihole - except the designer & the person behind its manufacture happens to be a good friend of mine.
> Once again - well done for your critical review
Briha

[Peace Lover]

Between Precihole Orion and Pegasus, both are equally powerful - delivering 16 Joules per their website. So which one do you suggest for a novice - Orion or Pegasus? Note that Pegasus has a higher fps of 800 vs 600 in Orion.

[essdee1972]

Ashok, adding my kudos to the above!!

Peace Lover, it depends on whether you are planning for competition shooting or beer can plinking. Official competitions in this country do not allow 0.22 in air weapons, only 0.177, hence you need to go for Pegasus. Even if you go for the best in the world kinda stuff, you are limited to 0.177, that too within the max fps limits, aka deal wood test.

For plinking, you can use any calibre which you like! After all, you are not in a competition, and can hence set your own rules. Of course, the safety rules and the law in general will apply to all!

16 Joules energy, when delivered in a heavier pellet (0.22 vis-a-vis 0.177) will give lesser velocity (fps), as power will depend on velocity as well as mass. (Maybe some prof can remind me of the proper formula??? It's been a while since I sat in Physics classes )

To all - just for my GK, why do we measure power in Joules, which is based on the metre-kilogram (continental or international) system, and velocity in fps, which is British / American system??? (the Physics class calls again!!)

[brihacharan]

[quote="essdee1972"]
Ashok, adding my kudos to the above!!

Peace Lover, it depends on whether you are planning for competition shooting or beer can plinking. Official competitions in this country do not allow 0.22 in air weapons, only 0.177, hence you need to go for Pegasus. Even if you go for the best in the world kinda stuff, you are limited to 0.177, that too within the max fps limits, aka deal wood test.

For plinking, you can use any calibre which you like! After all, you are not in a competition, and can hence set your own rules. Of course, the safety rules and the law in general will apply to all!

16 Joules energy, when delivered in a heavier pellet (0.22 vis-a-vis 0.177) will give lesser velocity (fps), as power will depend on velocity as well as mass. (Maybe some prof can remind me of the proper formula??? It's been a while since I sat in Physics classes )

To all - just for my GK, why do we measure power in Joules, which is based on the metre-kilogram (continental or international) system, and velocity in fps, which is British / American system??? (the Physics class calls again!)

Hi ALL!
> Excepting Precihole's 'Club' version in 0.177 which is aimed at those participating in competitions - Orion & Pegasus are classified as sports class ARs.
> All ARs ie: Orion / Pegasus / Club conform to max: 12flbs as per statutory forensic requirement.
> Velocities vary between Orion = 600fps & Pegasus = 750fps. Since Orion being a 0.22cal uses a heavier pellet ie: 14grs & Pegasus being a 0.177cal uses a lighter pellet ie: 8.5grs.
> The calculation for energy (foot pounds - fpe) is E = mc2 (c squared) ./. k (constant = 400250)
> For Orion the fpe would be: 14 x 600 x 600 ./. 400250 = 12fpe
> For Pegasus the fpe would be: 8.5 x 750 x 750 ./. 400250 = 12fpe
> 35 Joules = 30fpe
> Hence the ARs use 15 Joule Springs.
> The Precihole's Club AR has a velocity of 550fps.
Briha

[mundaire]

It's been said before, but I'll repeat here all the same:

There is NO REQUIREMENT in INDIA limiting the power of air-rifles to 12 ft/lbs. This restriction is in place in some countries like U.K for instance, other countries like Spain set the limit at 18 ft/lbs, yet others like South Korea, U.S.A etc. place no restrictions on air-rifle power levels.

What we DO HAVE in India is something called a "deal wood test". So long as your air-rifle satisfies the conditions of the test, it is exempt from ALL PROVISIONS of the Arms Act. On the other hand if it fails the test, it would be classified as a firearm under the Arms Act and require an Arms License - whether it is producing 12 ft/ lbs of power/ more than 12 ft/lbs of power/ less than 12 ft/ lbs of power is completely immaterial.

Hope this helps clear the air on this.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[airgun_novice]

Dear u_vaste,
Thank you for your birthday wishes (I share the gift with my daughter) & sorry for the late response. Travelling a bit. You have got the name in the MMR list - the reason I didn't want to quote any agent's name is because I might be branded as an agent of an agent this time ! . Hey didn't realize that Palghar had an armory ! Will check out Meher of Palghar in Dec when I visit there. Have some contact there - so should not be tough trying to figure out which part of Palghar Meher's located in. Would be good to see what all the shop's got to offer.

Dear lazybones,
Fantastic & Objective Review. I like the part where you didn't miss the trigger shape - "lean, mean and trim" I had commented to the good designer. For those like me who like to shoot OS, the sights align wonderfully and consistently, unlike IHP's.

Dear Pratik,
Got back dabbas of gsmith Competition, P-10 with me and already have Amateurs. You can have the fps/ accuracy test for Pegasus ready for the entire gsmith range of .177 pellets. This apart from Mastershot Green dabba and yellow dabba. If we could meet in last week of November I shall get RWS Club/ RWS R-10 & Ahg Finale Match for you - still have some leftovers in each of those tins. That way, you can have a range of data ready in terms of IHP/ Pegasus vis-a-vis all the pellets speed & accuracy. BTW in MS green v/s Yellow dabba contest, I shall side with the yellow dabba. Green seems to have slightly lighter weight but has tiny burr-like wings, which increase the speed but compromise on accuracy. I experimented with those in the local competition !!! But that was the first occasion (and also only since I was slated to travel that day on) I could use the new arrivals.

Dear Jignesh,
Has your wedge problem been corrected and is the AR back with you ? Hope you enjoy the shooting experience to the fullest. Happy shooting.

Dear Brihji,
I have your dabbas of gsmith HIs. It would be nice if you could pitch Samurai v/s Terminator v/s Orion and give us something more to think and salivate. Hopefully, you do not turn the Orion now into ... say, IFGator !

Dear all,
Orion seems to be in far more demand than the .177s. Why are Indian folks so much fascinated with .22 than .177 ? I mean you can do just about everything with a .177 that you do with a .22 and yet also use it in the range !

[brihacharan]

It's been said before, but I'll repeat here all the same:

There is NO REQUIREMENT in INDIA limiting the power of air-rifles to 12 ft/lbs. This restriction is in place in some countries like U.K for instance, other countries like Spain set the limit at 18 ft/lbs, yet others like South Korea, U.S.A etc. place no restrictions on air-rifle power levels.

What we DO HAVE in India is something called a "deal wood test". So long as your air-rifle satisfies the conditions of the test, it is exempt from ALL PROVISIONS of the Arms Act. On the other hand if it fails the test, it would be classified as a firearm under the Arms Act and require an Arms License - whether it is producing 12 ft/ lbs of power/ more than 12 ft/lbs of power/ less than 12 ft/ lbs of power is completely immaterial.

Hope this helps clear the air on this.
Cheers!
Abhijeet

> Thanks Abhijeet - Its an eye opener
> It was a presumption that anything over 12 ft/lbs would fail the 'Deal Wood Test'!
> BTW I checked with a timber merchant & was told that fruit packing wooden crates (mangoes / apples) were made of deal wood, in which case a 12 ft/lbs AR would certainly fail the test, would it not?
> What do you say?
Cheers
Briha

[SriramK]

Those crates are not 1" thick, which IIRC is the thickness of the wood in dealwood tests. But you should round up a few crates and test them out

[22cal]

Today Aimco website says that they are going to book orders for Precihole Pegasus .177 from 7th December 2012.

Still there is no news for Precihole Club .177, which I am waiting for.

[Basu]

Dear .22cal,
Precihole might not be watching this forum regularly.
Yet I hpoe there are some IFGians who will vent out
your concern to the company personnels through their
own channel.

Basu

[mundaire]

Those crates are not 1" thick, which IIRC is the thickness of the wood in dealwood tests. But you should round up a few crates and test them out

By all means, but in case your air-rifle fails the test - please be sure to obtain the arms license (as required by law) for it prior to posting the results here

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Biren]

Those crates are not 1" thick, which IIRC is the thickness of the wood in dealwood tests. But you should round up a few crates and test them out

By all means, but in case your air-rifle fails the test - please be sure to obtain the arms license (as required by law) for it prior to posting the results here

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Hi Mundaire,

You mean to say in case the airgun fails deal wood test then whoevers own it will hold it illeagally and can be imprisoned for upto 7 yrs?

And this 12fts is hogwash?

Rgds,
Biren

[mundaire]

That's correct, if it fails the deal wood test it will be then treated as a firearm and possession of a firearm without valid license attracts up to 7 years RI (for first time offence). Repeat offence can attract up to double the sentence i.e. 14 years RI.

Neither is there any mention of 12 ft lbs or for that matter any other quantitative muzzle energy restriction on air-rifles. The only measure of whether an air-rifle is to be exempt from all provisions of the Arms Act OR if it is to be treated as a firearm IS THE deal wood test as specified in the relevant notification (please see the relevant thread in the "legal eagle" section here).

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[nagarifle]

there you go the ideal wood test:


http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2335
OK, finally got hold of a copy of the famous Central Government notification No. G.S.R 991 dated 13-7-1962 where it had excluded arms and ammunition of the descriptions specified in Column (1) of Schedule II from certain provision of the Act and subject to conditions mentioned therein. Posting the relevant parts here FYI:

Schedule II

Arms & Ammunition
1.
(1)
(2)
(3) Air guns, air rifles and air pistols which satisfy the following test, namely that - the projectiles discharged from such guns or pistols do not perforate a target 12 inches square formed by deal-wood boards of even grain, free from knots, planed on both sides and of thickness of 1/2" and 1" for air pistols and air guns/ rifles respectively:
Provided that in making and estimating the test the following conditions shall be observed, namely:-

(a) the weapon shall be held horizontally with the muzzle at a distance of five feet from the target,

(b) the test shall be repeated twenty times for each class of projectiles which can be discharged from the weapon; and

(c) perforation shall be deemed to be effected-
(i) in a case where the projectile is a dart, if the point of the dart pierces the back of the target, and
(ii) in any other case if the projectile passes completely through the back of the target.

Provisions of the Act (which the above are exempted from)

All; provided that the Central Government may, by notification in the Official Gazette, retain all or any of the provisions of the Act in respect of air pistols or of any class thereof in the case of any class of persons or of any specified area.

[SriramK]

Instead of all this ambiguity (What if the wood I choose happened to be softer than usual? What if for some reason the pellet was slightly misshapen which made it penetrate more than usual? What if I shoot at some part of the wood where the grain is easy to penetrate?), it'd be good if they just use scientific measurements instead. But for all you know, they might bring out a test which involves the most high tech machinery tested by a guy who thinks that any rifle with a trigger is a firearm. Or when you finally convince him of the rules he should already know, he'd expect you to bribe him to get you cleared.