Hi Guys
I was talking to a very high ranking IPS officer here in Hyderabad last night and he told me that the import of firearms was to be reopened by the end of this year.He stated that this is confirmed news and its is the Govt's policy to open up World trade including Arms.
I had heard this rumour in October last year from a close aide of a Cabinet minister but I had argued that this rumour had been going on for the past 25 years.He had also mentioned that the calibres that were being manufactured by the IOF would not be permitted for import.
Fact of Fiction?
Cheers
Ashar
Import of Firearms to be reopened.
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HydNawab
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Import of Firearms to be reopened.
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Risala
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Re: Import of Firearms to be reopened.
Ashar,
AFAIK,the orders banning imports in 86 were issued by the Min of Finance,and not Home.
So the point was not related to Security,law and order,but rather abuse of importing arms and selling them at 3 to 4 x in those days.
Never no,it might just happen.Atleast hope it does
And if IOF dont wont any comp,we could all be running around with .357,.40 etc
Cheers
Sanjay
AFAIK,the orders banning imports in 86 were issued by the Min of Finance,and not Home.
So the point was not related to Security,law and order,but rather abuse of importing arms and selling them at 3 to 4 x in those days.
Never no,it might just happen.Atleast hope it does
And if IOF dont wont any comp,we could all be running around with .357,.40 etc
Cheers
Sanjay
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mehulkamdar
Re: Import of Firearms to be reopened.
Ashar,
I do think that this is only a rumour, or, some kind of wishful thinking. I do have some contacts in the present government and my ear to the ground. And my people know what I think about the restrictions. Believe me, if there was any proposal to amend the import regulations, I would come to know.
Sanjay,
The whole story about people importing firearms and selling them rightaway was a canard The fact is that even when imports were allowed the imported firearms could not be sold for a period of five years. It's funny how this kind of propaganda finds it's way onto a gun enthusiasts' forum.
I do think that this is only a rumour, or, some kind of wishful thinking. I do have some contacts in the present government and my ear to the ground. And my people know what I think about the restrictions. Believe me, if there was any proposal to amend the import regulations, I would come to know.
Sanjay,
The whole story about people importing firearms and selling them rightaway was a canard The fact is that even when imports were allowed the imported firearms could not be sold for a period of five years. It's funny how this kind of propaganda finds it's way onto a gun enthusiasts' forum.
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Sujay
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Re: Import of Firearms to be reopened.
Ashar,
That part about "Govt's policy to open up world trade including Arms " is not at all true.
What has happened is sometimes back United States has confronted India with charging abnormally high duties on many of the items. As usual, the GOI put the onus on US to prove it. US submitted a list of 40 items indicating the current rate of duty charged by Indian customs. Not to be bogged down, GOI asked a report from its own sources specifying the rate of duties on the items listed.
It was found that on most of the items, the actual rate of duties cannot be said with certainty and the sources themselves were not sure about the rate of duty applicable. Rumour has it that Arms & Ammo was also in that list.
What I speculate is that some detailed enquiries might have been made regarding the duty on Arms which filtered down as an indication of the noble intention to rectify a wrong done decades ago
Personally I feel that there is no smoke without a fire but the strength and extent of fire remains to be seen !
That part about "Govt's policy to open up world trade including Arms " is not at all true.
What has happened is sometimes back United States has confronted India with charging abnormally high duties on many of the items. As usual, the GOI put the onus on US to prove it. US submitted a list of 40 items indicating the current rate of duty charged by Indian customs. Not to be bogged down, GOI asked a report from its own sources specifying the rate of duties on the items listed.
It was found that on most of the items, the actual rate of duties cannot be said with certainty and the sources themselves were not sure about the rate of duty applicable. Rumour has it that Arms & Ammo was also in that list.
What I speculate is that some detailed enquiries might have been made regarding the duty on Arms which filtered down as an indication of the noble intention to rectify a wrong done decades ago
Personally I feel that there is no smoke without a fire but the strength and extent of fire remains to be seen !
A man should have a hobby. It keeps him out of trouble.
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Sujay
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Re: Import of Firearms to be reopened.
Sanjay";p="17794 wrote:Ashar,
AFAIK,the orders banning imports in 86 were issued by the Min of Finance,and not Home.
So the point was not related to Security,law and order,but rather abuse of importing arms and selling them at 3 to 4 x in those days.
Sanjay,
I always wanted to have look at that particular infamous notification banning small arms and airgun import by individuals but could not till today. I don't even know the notification number with certainty.Can you do something in this regard ?
It intrigues me how foreign made arms commanded a premium at times when import was allowed to all licence holders ? Also I distinctly remember that terrorism was cited as reason to bring the notification. ( As if Babbar Khalsa preferred H & H Doubles and Diana Airguns
)A man should have a hobby. It keeps him out of trouble.
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danish21
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AsharHydNawab";p="17786 wrote:I was talking to a very high ranking IPS officer here in Hyderabad last night and he told me that the import of firearms was to be reopened by the end of this year.He stated that this is confirmed news and its is the Govt's policy to open up World trade including Arms.
I also heard this long ago through some sources that it has to be opened by the end of 2004... but nothing happend
Danish
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Mack The Knife
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Re: Import of Firearms to be reopened.
Ashar,
Last year someone from this board informed me that there would be an announcement in the next budget pertaining to relaxation of the rules on import of arms and ammo.
I bought my first shotgun on the 23rd of Feb for a sum that I could ill afford and it wasn't as if I had forgotten what was told to me in 2006...
I do hope what you say happens but I am not holding my breath.
Mack The Knife
Last year someone from this board informed me that there would be an announcement in the next budget pertaining to relaxation of the rules on import of arms and ammo.
I bought my first shotgun on the 23rd of Feb for a sum that I could ill afford and it wasn't as if I had forgotten what was told to me in 2006...
I do hope what you say happens but I am not holding my breath.
Mack The Knife
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Risala
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Re: Import of Firearms to be reopened.
Mehul,
Am not sure of the holding period for a fire arm in those days,before it could be sold if one had imported it,so wont speculate on that.
For that one would have to perhaps get hold of the EXIM policy applicable at that point in time, there probably wasnt one,the 80's was the famous Licence Raj era.
,to the best of my knowledge the EXIM policy came into play for the first time in 92 the period liberalisation started under the then FM the present PM.
The policy was for the period 92-97 validated each yr,that policy am certain off have a copy,my business did avail some benefits and continue's to this day.
That said I do know folks who in the 80's on a flying visit to SIN picked up a piece and sold it on return.How they did it,your guess is as good as mine,this is India.
IOF hand guns are available in the market off the shelf.They are not supposed to be sold for 5 yrs when alloted.
Sujay
I have not seen the notification my self.
But the multiple x part when imports were allowed.
The Re in the 80's was bet 8 to 9 to a $.
Arminus and Erma sold for US $ 200 to 250 in SIN and sold for around for 15 to 16 K in Del,this is for certain know folks who did import at that time and some who sold.
Though imports were allowed at that point in time the dealers were in any case not selling at the import plus duty price,hence perhaps folks found it cheaper to import the firearm,by going for a week long jaunt to the Far East.
Using a diff analogy just to give you an idea about the val of money then and now.
Land that sold for 1 to 1.5 L per acre in Del as farm land,today sells for anywhere bet 6 to 9 Cr per acre,
The point being it was extremely profitable to sell fire arms in those days if one needed the moolah.
PS under the RTI one can always ask for the reasons imports of fire arms was banned.
Thanks
Sanjay
Am not sure of the holding period for a fire arm in those days,before it could be sold if one had imported it,so wont speculate on that.
For that one would have to perhaps get hold of the EXIM policy applicable at that point in time, there probably wasnt one,the 80's was the famous Licence Raj era.
,to the best of my knowledge the EXIM policy came into play for the first time in 92 the period liberalisation started under the then FM the present PM.
The policy was for the period 92-97 validated each yr,that policy am certain off have a copy,my business did avail some benefits and continue's to this day.
That said I do know folks who in the 80's on a flying visit to SIN picked up a piece and sold it on return.How they did it,your guess is as good as mine,this is India.
IOF hand guns are available in the market off the shelf.They are not supposed to be sold for 5 yrs when alloted.
Sujay
I have not seen the notification my self.
But the multiple x part when imports were allowed.
The Re in the 80's was bet 8 to 9 to a $.
Arminus and Erma sold for US $ 200 to 250 in SIN and sold for around for 15 to 16 K in Del,this is for certain know folks who did import at that time and some who sold.
Though imports were allowed at that point in time the dealers were in any case not selling at the import plus duty price,hence perhaps folks found it cheaper to import the firearm,by going for a week long jaunt to the Far East.
Using a diff analogy just to give you an idea about the val of money then and now.
Land that sold for 1 to 1.5 L per acre in Del as farm land,today sells for anywhere bet 6 to 9 Cr per acre,
The point being it was extremely profitable to sell fire arms in those days if one needed the moolah.
PS under the RTI one can always ask for the reasons imports of fire arms was banned.
Thanks
Sanjay
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mehulkamdar
Re: Import of Firearms to be reopened.
Sanjay,
Agree with you completely that in India the laws are on paper alone. That said, there were authorised dealers in India for several foreign gunmakers including Browning, Anschutz, Walther etc and booking a product through them would get you a lower price than buying one from Singapore. In either case, you had to get permission from customs to bring a gun in after getting your license and you could pick it up and then bring it in. A scam that some tried successfully at the time was to "hypothecate" the gun to someone on taking a loan for a certain amount and they would default on payments for 6 or more months allowing the "lender" to then transfer the gun onto his/her name. Of course this was illegal but with pliant police officials and even lower level judges at the time many of the powerful got away with it.
It is not true that there was no EXIM policy back then. My family's business were dealers for several products sold by Schott/Desag, Corning France, B C Rubin, Metro Optical etc since before Independence and every year after the budget there would be a scramble to buy a copy of the Export Import Handbook even in the early 1970s through the license-permit era as far as I remember though this must have gone on even before. It is just that duties were as high as 700% on some products, the banned list of imports was much longer than it is these days, and of course, the attendant corruption in the office of the Joint Chief Controller of Exports and Imports was like getting a drivers' license is these days with government touts waiting to fix "rates" with everyone who went there to get permission to import or export something. They then changed the name of the department to the Director General of Foreign Trade after Narasimha Rao took over.
In any case, India's worst tyrants did their best at the time to disarm the country and send it into the miserable state of affairs that it is in now vis a vis guns. As long as a party that owes it's miserable existence to the two worst tyrants who ran India is in power leads the country, I am certain that this is not going to change. IIRC Vajpayee specifically told Jaspal Rana when he lost a possible Olympic gold because he did not have a good enough pistol, that the BJP led coalition would amend the lawws but then they lurched from crisis to crisis after the Kargil war and never got round to doing anything.
In my personal archives in India I have a copy of an article that my friend K N Srinivasan and I wrote on the Open Page of The Hindu in 1984 criticising this farce. Srini and I both were trainees at All India Radio Madras at the time. If I find a copy online, I shall post it here. Many years later Gobind Narain Singh who had been a former CM of Madhya Pradesh wrote another excellent aticle critiquing the Indira-Rajiv gun ban, an "insider's view" so to say, which clearly exposed the compulsions that drove the two petty tyrants to do what they did. G N Singh's name has come up for discussion on these forums before and I shall try to find his article as well detailing this. It just might take time - articles from that period are not easily accessed on newspapers' websites and I shall have to get someone in India to check and find out if the newspaper-morgues at The Hindu would turn them up, and then, get permission from the editors there to post them here.
Agree with you completely that in India the laws are on paper alone. That said, there were authorised dealers in India for several foreign gunmakers including Browning, Anschutz, Walther etc and booking a product through them would get you a lower price than buying one from Singapore. In either case, you had to get permission from customs to bring a gun in after getting your license and you could pick it up and then bring it in. A scam that some tried successfully at the time was to "hypothecate" the gun to someone on taking a loan for a certain amount and they would default on payments for 6 or more months allowing the "lender" to then transfer the gun onto his/her name. Of course this was illegal but with pliant police officials and even lower level judges at the time many of the powerful got away with it.
It is not true that there was no EXIM policy back then. My family's business were dealers for several products sold by Schott/Desag, Corning France, B C Rubin, Metro Optical etc since before Independence and every year after the budget there would be a scramble to buy a copy of the Export Import Handbook even in the early 1970s through the license-permit era as far as I remember though this must have gone on even before. It is just that duties were as high as 700% on some products, the banned list of imports was much longer than it is these days, and of course, the attendant corruption in the office of the Joint Chief Controller of Exports and Imports was like getting a drivers' license is these days with government touts waiting to fix "rates" with everyone who went there to get permission to import or export something. They then changed the name of the department to the Director General of Foreign Trade after Narasimha Rao took over.
In any case, India's worst tyrants did their best at the time to disarm the country and send it into the miserable state of affairs that it is in now vis a vis guns. As long as a party that owes it's miserable existence to the two worst tyrants who ran India is in power leads the country, I am certain that this is not going to change. IIRC Vajpayee specifically told Jaspal Rana when he lost a possible Olympic gold because he did not have a good enough pistol, that the BJP led coalition would amend the lawws but then they lurched from crisis to crisis after the Kargil war and never got round to doing anything.
In my personal archives in India I have a copy of an article that my friend K N Srinivasan and I wrote on the Open Page of The Hindu in 1984 criticising this farce. Srini and I both were trainees at All India Radio Madras at the time. If I find a copy online, I shall post it here. Many years later Gobind Narain Singh who had been a former CM of Madhya Pradesh wrote another excellent aticle critiquing the Indira-Rajiv gun ban, an "insider's view" so to say, which clearly exposed the compulsions that drove the two petty tyrants to do what they did. G N Singh's name has come up for discussion on these forums before and I shall try to find his article as well detailing this. It just might take time - articles from that period are not easily accessed on newspapers' websites and I shall have to get someone in India to check and find out if the newspaper-morgues at The Hindu would turn them up, and then, get permission from the editors there to post them here.
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Sakobav
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Well Guns dont know but India has agreed to let Harleys in for allowing Indian mangoes exports
Great news for Wisconsin and Milwaukee
King-size trade-off:
Harleys for mangoes
S Satyanarayanan
Tribune News Service
New Delhi, April 13
As Indian mangoes are just a few days away from shipment to the US, New Delhi has decided to allow Harley Davidson to cruise on Indian roads as trade off for the ‘King of Fruits’, relaxing emission norms for the American luxury bike
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070414/main9.htm
Great news for Wisconsin and Milwaukee
King-size trade-off:
Harleys for mangoes
S Satyanarayanan
Tribune News Service
New Delhi, April 13
As Indian mangoes are just a few days away from shipment to the US, New Delhi has decided to allow Harley Davidson to cruise on Indian roads as trade off for the ‘King of Fruits’, relaxing emission norms for the American luxury bike
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070414/main9.htm
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badshah0522
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mundaire
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Mehul,
Keeping in mind the fact that even formerly taboo commodities like gold etc. are now allowed for import quite freely, the current ban on firearms/ ammunition import is completely illogical to say the least.
While, it would be a good start to begin by opening up imports, as they were prior to '84 - serious thought should be given towards moving to a pre-independence type scenario where, guns and ammunition were freely imported through licensed dealers/ distributors. Then and only then, will the common Indian shooting/ gun enthusiast begin to be offered realistic prices for quality firearms and ammunition.
Meanwhile, as Asif pointed out in another post - all of us can just read & weep/ weep & read...
Cheers!
Abhijeet
Keeping in mind the fact that even formerly taboo commodities like gold etc. are now allowed for import quite freely, the current ban on firearms/ ammunition import is completely illogical to say the least.
While, it would be a good start to begin by opening up imports, as they were prior to '84 - serious thought should be given towards moving to a pre-independence type scenario where, guns and ammunition were freely imported through licensed dealers/ distributors. Then and only then, will the common Indian shooting/ gun enthusiast begin to be offered realistic prices for quality firearms and ammunition.
Meanwhile, as Asif pointed out in another post - all of us can just read & weep/ weep & read...
Cheers!
Abhijeet
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mehulkamdar
Re: Import of Firearms to be reopened.
Navdeep,
This whole bit about relaxing emissions norms for HArley Davidsons is complete rubbish considering that the Harleys comply with the California norms which are the toughest in the world. Walk on the streets of an Indian city these days and it is like being in a Nazi gas chamber.
That said, I am deliriously happy about Indian mangies being available here instead of the insipid South American junk that we have been forced to buy for the past three years. Langda, Himampasand, Banganapallee, Pedda Rasalu, Kesar, Hafus, Pyree etc!
I would go to the nearest port and wait for the containers to be unloaded if I could! 
Abhijeet,
I agree with you 100% on this. But how does anyone inject commonsense into our politicians' skulls? I wish there were a way to do this.
This whole bit about relaxing emissions norms for HArley Davidsons is complete rubbish considering that the Harleys comply with the California norms which are the toughest in the world. Walk on the streets of an Indian city these days and it is like being in a Nazi gas chamber.
That said, I am deliriously happy about Indian mangies being available here instead of the insipid South American junk that we have been forced to buy for the past three years. Langda, Himampasand, Banganapallee, Pedda Rasalu, Kesar, Hafus, Pyree etc!
I would go to the nearest port and wait for the containers to be unloaded if I could! Abhijeet,
I agree with you 100% on this. But how does anyone inject commonsense into our politicians' skulls? I wish there were a way to do this.