Tips on Pistol Shooting

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dev
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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by dev » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:32 am

airgun_novice wrote:A quick Q on the pellets. In fact, there should have been no doubt in my mind but then self-experience v/s seniors' experience often brings out the duality and pushing the thought process through the prism . I primarily used Mastershot (yellow plastic) for practice, They score the desired shots very well a shade better than gsmith. But last week an experienced shooter showed me what a fool I was to use them for practice. I should be using RWS Club (Sportline) at least. The gsmith and MS are for beginners who start on the saftey course with IHP N25. After spedning so much on tournaments and travel for prax/ tournaments why do "chindigiri" wrt pellets ?

Well, so I got me a tin of RWS Club from VS. My experience was that they did group better than MS but there was no change in Desired Shot (#9 & #10) %. So I started doing what I should not be doing - scored. Now another surprise - Out of last 8 matches (4 with RWS and 4 with MS), I ended up scoring 10-15 points higher and that too consistently with MS than RWS. A day saw two back to back matches - one with RWS and one with MS. So to experiment, on last two events (i.e. last 4 matches) I shot with RWS first and then with MS - the logic being "inferior" MS and some amount of fatigue would cause the second score to dip. But wonder of wonders - all of those matches saw me score higher with MS. Plus added to that the pre-RWS Club two matches which I shot only with MS. Overall only once did RWS score (a bit more) than MS but on all the rest MS scored 10-15 over RWS.

So, should I stick on MS for practice and use RWS R-10 or FInale Match or H & N for actual tournaments or do I get used to better imported pellets for practice and eventually hope to settle with them ? :? It's a dilema akin to newer version of linux working well with older Intel hardware chipset than with latest.
Hi the reason I would urge you to get your hands on RWS or any other pellet versus master shot is that they (rws) are more consistent. I have found that meisterkuglen group the tightest for me. I will not regale you about the shot gun patters I was shooting till day before. Had made some unwise changes in my trigger also. Now I am back to the old settings and soon to the old groups too.

Regards,

Dev

Salaams to our guru for being on point and boxing our ears in. Thank you so much.
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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by hvj1 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:50 pm

Tirpassion and all my friends,
I had promised Tirpassion that I will be writing on a new subject, which is as follows;
Questionnaire:

1. Do you know how to shoot a '10' ?

This is a very obvious question, is it not? No it isint.

The reason ask this question is, because in my formative years, (Mavlankar days), I was so desperate to get a good score,that when I could not shoot 10s in a match, I would abandon my method to shoot a 10, (which I had adopted) during practice session and practice matches) and desperately seek out another way of shooting a 10. Those days, I was not acquainted with SOA and developed it later.

Have you experienced this?

Incidentally, Tirpassion, please sms me your mobile number in India.

Lets stick to this question, I would like to see what kind of feedback I receive.

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by tirpassion » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:19 pm

Guruji, Pranam!

It is indeed a tough question. Tough because of the word 'know'. One can know a lot without feeling. So my interpreation of the word knowing is rather feeling.

Now to answer to your question.
Earlier, I used to think that I knew how to shoot a 10. But now, I feel that I do not know how to shoot a 10. On the contrary, I feel (know) that I can shoot a good shot accepting well mys arcs of movement about 80 to 90% of time.
So, in short, if you ask me to shoot a 10, I will do my best to shoot a good shot and without bringing the card back, I should be able to tell you where the pellet has landed. It might be a 10 or might not be, but it will be, in all probability, a good shot.

Yes, I have experienced the very same phenomenon. With a bit more time and your guidance, I am learning to stick to one principle, the meticulous execution of the SOA. I have felt that it is the most effective method to achieve the goal.
The wandering mind has to be brought back to the track sometimes. The main effort is there.

I will reach India on Monday next, the 22nd October. I will PM you my mobile n° in India.

best regards
tirpassion

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by brihacharan » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:51 pm

Ideal Stance for Pistol Shooting

Hi tirpassion / Agn / Jitu / Dev…
Herewith my 2 cents worth for perfect shooting!
•In any shooting sport ‘A Comfortable Stance’ is the key to accurate shooting.
•Hence to attain this stance you may try and adopt the following:
•Stand facing the target – now spread your feet to the exact width of your shoulder – In most cases your shoulder width is around 18” to 20”
•Draw a horizontal line with a chalk measuring 18” / 20”
•Mark the centre & draw a perpendicular line of the same length
•Now on the right-hand quadrant (here the angle between the horizontal & perpendicular line will be 90 degrees) draw another line that will be at 45 degrees to these.
•On this 45 degree line mark 18” or 20”(ie: from the centre point 9” or 10” either side)
•Now place your feet on these makings and turn your body to face the target (in effect you will be standing facing the target at an angle of 45 degrees)
•Standing in this position when you raise your arm holding the pistol to point at the target, the entire weight is uniformly & perpendicularly distributed from your head to toe.
•This stance you will realize is extremely comfortable as every weight & force is evenly and equilaterally distributed in perfect alignment with the line of sight.
•Now all you have to do is:
1.As you raise your pistol begin inhaling – when you get your sight alignment done (this should take approx. 4 to 5 secs.)
2.Hold steady – begin exhaling – when you are half way hold your breath for 2 to 3 secs – during this process gently, progressively & positively squeeze the trigger to fire.
See and enjoy the difference it has made to enhance the accuracy of your shooting!
Incidentally do not exhale completely once you have the sight aligned & begin breathing all over again – This will only upset the psycho / motor balance and make the pellet go astray from the point of aim.
All said and done your frame of mind (cool, calm & collected) should echo inside your head 3 simple words – I must do it – I can do it – I will do it!!! :D
Happy Shooting! :cheers:
Briha

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by fantumfan2003 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:27 pm

hvj1

I would honestly answer "NO".
In the early years, I would indeed desperately explore "other" methods of shooting a 10, but not anymore.
I need to work more on my SOA and holding.

M.

hvj1 wrote: 1. Do you know how to shoot a '10' ?

This is a very obvious question, is it not? No it isint.

The reason ask this question is, because in my formative years, (Mavlankar days), I was so desperate to get a good score,that when I could not shoot 10s in a match, I would abandon my method to shoot a 10, (which I had adopted) during practice session and practice matches) and desperately seek out another way of shooting a 10. Those days, I was not acquainted with SOA and developed it later.

Have you experienced this?

Incidentally, Tirpassion, please sms me your mobile number in India.

Lets stick to this question, I would like to see what kind of feedback I receive.
Last edited by fantumfan2003 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As an example of overcoming adversity, Karoly Takacs has few peers. He was part of Hungary’s world champion pistol-shooting team in 1938, when an army grenade exploded, crippling his right hand. Ten years later, having taught himself to shoot with his left, he won two gold medals in the rapid-fire class.

Darr ke aage jeet hai

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by fantumfan2003 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:28 pm

:agree:
tirpassion wrote: The wandering mind has to be brought back to the track sometimes. The main effort is there.

tirpassion
As an example of overcoming adversity, Karoly Takacs has few peers. He was part of Hungary’s world champion pistol-shooting team in 1938, when an army grenade exploded, crippling his right hand. Ten years later, having taught himself to shoot with his left, he won two gold medals in the rapid-fire class.

Darr ke aage jeet hai

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by airgun_novice » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:24 pm

One word answer - NOPES. :-( I am still groping around for #9s.

BTW, just back from MAWC - lot better than GFG-II but could have been better. Used RWS-Club as stated (tirpassion - wink wink). Points ought to be 350+ or so. Of course as usual a few landed in "Both Men's Land" (so they would go against me, as usual. Nothing went wrong for a change except the card holder about which I complained. But that was that and I had to accept that, something akin to older days when girl's parents would show her a lad and say "We have chosen this groom for you. Accept and marry without a murmur..."

The lane #12 holder's left loop was darn too loose in fact something like the U-clip that we all twist straight for time-pass. The right loop was darn too tight with the veritical tail nicely embedded inside the coil. A dude inserted a piece of paper and assured me that it would work - when I pointed that the left thinghy would simply slide out as there was nothing to hold it down - even the screw was a joke. So for 2 sighter cards and 40 record cards my liver was in my mouth both the ways when I prayed that the card would not pop out and fall down with the left loop. Good things now:
1. Purely antithesis of KKK - i.e. BLACKS ONLY. :-) No strays this time.
2. Desired shots and SOA % all in tune with my current standings at the prax sessions at SVS (with the RWS).

Would have been better but for the fact that I had to bloody degrip and regrip for every shot !!! Darn I almost hoped to dream of ... err, that elusive station where my train does not reach. :-(

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by fantumfan2003 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:12 pm

Oh Crap you were in lane #12 too ?

M.
airgun_novice wrote:One word answer - NOPES. :-( I am still groping around for #9s.

BTW, just back from MAWC - lot better than GFG-II but could have been better. Used RWS-Club as stated (tirpassion - wink wink). Points ought to be 350+ or so. Of course as usual a few landed in "Both Men's Land" (so they would go against me, as usual. Nothing went wrong for a change except the card holder about which I complained. But that was that and I had to accept that, something akin to older days when girl's parents would show her a lad and say "We have chosen this groom for you. Accept and marry without a murmur..."

The lane #12 holder's left loop was darn too loose in fact something like the U-clip that we all twist straight for time-pass. The right loop was darn too tight with the veritical tail nicely embedded inside the coil. A dude inserted a piece of paper and assured me that it would work - when I pointed that the left thinghy would simply slide out as there was nothing to hold it down - even the screw was a joke. So for 2 sighter cards and 40 record cards my liver was in my mouth both the ways when I prayed that the card would not pop out and fall down with the left loop. Good things now:
1. Purely antithesis of KKK - i.e. BLACKS ONLY. :-) No strays this time.
2. Desired shots and SOA % all in tune with my current standings at the prax sessions at SVS (with the RWS).

Would have been better but for the fact that I had to bloody degrip and regrip for every shot !!! Darn I almost hoped to dream of ... err, that elusive station where my train does not reach. :-(
As an example of overcoming adversity, Karoly Takacs has few peers. He was part of Hungary’s world champion pistol-shooting team in 1938, when an army grenade exploded, crippling his right hand. Ten years later, having taught himself to shoot with his left, he won two gold medals in the rapid-fire class.

Darr ke aage jeet hai

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by tirpassion » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:35 am

So at last, the RWS pellets are working for you also agn bhai :D
You shoot the Premium Line (R10) where as I have still not been able to graduate from the sport line (club) :cry:
Pray for me!

best regards
tirpassion

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by airgun_novice » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:37 am

tirpassion wrote:So at last, the RWS pellets are working for you also agn bhai :D
You shoot the Premium Line (R10) where as I have still not been able to graduate from the sport line (club) :cry:
Pray for me!

best regards
tirpassion
:-) RWS took me in resonance with prax sessions into 350s. Mastershot would have taken me to 366 ... :twisted: But then my AP is 20+ yr old; may be it does not have the nautanki of accepting new and shiny ones. Upacharyaji, I shall gift thee a tin of RWS R-10 which I have hoarded if you show up at Japs. :-) Anyway, I shall finish off the premium pellets at PTKS-II. Since Aimco is out of stock wrt MS and Mumbai dealers do not stock it, I might have to make a Meerut trip !!! So gsmith/ club it is in the interim. :-)

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by dev » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:15 pm

Please forgive me for being oblique, the question that Guruji has asked seems like a Zen riddle?
My answer would be a resounding yes. But at the moment I am content with squeezing the trigger correctly.
Due to a lack of practice, my trigger squeeze is now creating a strange upward movement...so for now I shall be doing box drills till I get the feel that I used to know.
And when that feel comes back then I know that I can keep two tens per five shots;this allows me the luxury of messing with two nines and an eight. This sort of group maintained over 40 shots should have me sailing thru whatever the most quested series and another trolls in our quest.
So for the time being my answer is yes and no. :lol:
To ride, to speak up, to shoot straight.

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by dev » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:17 pm

brihacharan wrote:Ideal Stance for Pistol Shooting

Hi tirpassion / Agn / Jitu / Dev…
Herewith my 2 cents worth for perfect shooting!
•In any shooting sport ‘A Comfortable Stance’ is the key to accurate shooting.
•Hence to attain this stance you may try and adopt the following:
•Stand facing the target – now spread your feet to the exact width of your shoulder – In most cases your shoulder width is around 18” to 20”
•Draw a horizontal line with a chalk measuring 18” / 20”
•Mark the centre & draw a perpendicular line of the same length
•Now on the right-hand quadrant (here the angle between the horizontal & perpendicular line will be 90 degrees) draw another line that will be at 45 degrees to these.
•On this 45 degree line mark 18” or 20”(ie: from the centre point 9” or 10” either side)
•Now place your feet on these makings and turn your body to face the target (in effect you will be standing facing the target at an angle of 45 degrees)
•Standing in this position when you raise your arm holding the pistol to point at the target, the entire weight is uniformly & perpendicularly distributed from your head to toe.
•This stance you will realize is extremely comfortable as every weight & force is evenly and equilaterally distributed in perfect alignment with the line of sight.
•Now all you have to do is:
1.As you raise your pistol begin inhaling – when you get your sight alignment done (this should take approx. 4 to 5 secs.)
2.Hold steady – begin exhaling – when you are half way hold your breath for 2 to 3 secs – during this process gently, progressively & positively squeeze the trigger to fire.
See and enjoy the difference it has made to enhance the accuracy of your shooting!
Incidentally do not exhale completely once you have the sight aligned & begin breathing all over again – This will only upset the psycho / motor balance and make the pellet go astray from the point of aim.
All said and done your frame of mind (cool, calm & collected) should echo inside your head 3 simple words – I must do it – I can do it – I will do it!!! :D
Happy Shooting! :cheers:
Briha
Hi Briha,

Thank you for the tip on stance . I shall be breaking that down as well.

Regards,

Dev
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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by jitu sati » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:43 pm

my answer to the question from guruji is somedays when i am shooting well i seem to know how to hit a ten and there are some days when i am unable understand how to hit 9s as agn has said. so as far as being sure of Knowing the way to hit a 10 without fail. No Sir i surely dont yet know.

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by brihacharan » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:43 pm

Hi Briha,
Thank you for the tip on stance . I shall be breaking that down as well.
Regards,
Dev

FUNDAMENTALS OF AIR PISTOL SHOOTING
Hi Guys,

After much contemplation, research and going through the valuable suggestions & observations made in this thread by our respected fraternity of Gurus & Upagurus, I humbly submit the mechanics of what every aspiring shooter must bear in mind while on the road to achieving success and satisfaction in Air Pistol Shooting.

In my considered opinion and I hope that the Guru & Upagurus will agree is that, all elements of pistol shooting such as position, grip, sight alignment, breath control, trigger control, physical condition, and psychology of shooting only when perfected, simply enables the shooter to perform with complete ease & harmony.

BODY POSITION OR STANCE
1.We are all constructed differently and have different natural positions. To find your natural position, face away from the target at 45 degrees. Look at the target by turning your head and eyes only and raise the pistol to the eye / target / line. Close your eyes & raise your pistol and arm several feet and allow it to fall in a relaxed and natural way to the horizontal. If it falls right down the center of the target, you have your natural position. If it falls to one side, shuffle on your feet, keeping the body axis from the feet to the shoulder the same, until the pistol is aligned on the target again.

2.Several tries such as this one will readily show you how far to face away from the target. This test need only be made a few times. At all following sessions start out with the position that you have decided is natural for you and stay with it. The feet should be spread apart about the width of your shoulders or marginally more (refer my earlier post). You may have noticed that you’ve spread your feet farther apart than when you first began shooting. However, if you spread your feet unnaturally at first, you may have to exert undue muscular effort to maintain balance. The objective is to be well balanced and comfortable in your stance.

3.The legs should be straight, but not stiff. Allow the knee joints to fall into a locked position, but still be relaxed. The thigh muscles should be relaxed. If you are tense anywhere, it is a sign of strain and will show up in your trigger control. The hips should be level and in an easy, natural position. Let your abdomen relax. Allow the shoulders to hang naturally and relaxed.

4.The head and neck should be in an easy natural position. You must look at the target by turning you head and eyes slightly without moving from the neck down. The simplest way to do this is to face your entire body away from the target at the angle you have selected – preferably 45 degrees and then turn your head and eyes only to the target before raising your pistol to the firing position (refer my earlier post).

5.While looking at the target from this natural position, raise your pistol until you can align the sights on the target. The important thing is to make your pistol arm fit the body position instead of ruining a good body position by craning the neck and shoulders trying to get behind the pistol. The body position (stance) must be selected first, then use the pistol arm only to bring the sights in line with the eye and target.

6.The pistol arm should be extended directly toward the target. The wrist is locked without strain, (this requires practice). The elbow is locked also but with no sense of strain or tenseness. Try holding a ten or fifteen pound weight out in the firing position and feel the top of your shoulder where the arm joins and you will find the small hard muscles that support your gun arm. You should feel that the pistol is hanging from above, and not that you are pushing it up from below.

BREATH CONTROL

1.The object of breath control is to enable you to hold your breath with a comfortable feeling long enough to fire. Take several deep relaxing breaths immediately prior to extending the pistol, and as you extend it, take another breath and exhale until your lungs feel normal. Hold until you fire. If you have too much air in the lungs, you will feel the pressure and it will interfere with your ability to hold. If you completely empty the lungs your arm will begin to shake in about 5 seconds.


PHYSICAL CONDITIONING

1.Many shooters discount the element of proper physical conditioning. They think that so little effort is required to extend a two pound pistol and fire it that they need no exercise. You’ll realize that some of your fatigue is due to a certain amount of nervous tension, however, when you are in top condition, you will feel good even after two or three days of match shooting.

2.The real payoff for good condition lies in the score. Several shooters have added fifty points or more to their Grand Aggregates by conditioning themselves with systematic weight training programs prior to the matches. I recommend a mild weight-training program and some road work to put the shooter in a good general condition, then some special exercises for the shooting arm (I had sent these to AGN & Jitu earlier)

3.These special exercises consist of holding an object, weighing several times more than the pistol. A bottle full of water or a five pound dumb- bell are some of the things that can be used. Extend the weight just as you would a pistol and line it up on an object and try to hold it steady until your arm starts throbbing. Rest for a few minutes and repeat the exercise. 10 minutes of this each day that you do not shoot on the range will enable you to hold steadier and longer than before.

TRIGGER CONTROL

1.I am not particularly fond of using the word "squeeze" in connection with trigger control. When we think of the action of squeezing, we usually close all four fingers and thumb together at the same time. This is definitely not proper trigger control. The pressure put on the trigger must come from the trigger finger only. The gripping fingers and base of thumb should not move. Get the proper grip on your pistol and keep the pressure constant, align the sights on the target properly, then with the trigger finger only, exert a steady, constant & continuous pressure, straight to the rear, till the pistol fires. All these movements in ONE SMOOTH MOTION.

FLINCHING

1.All shooters suffer from this malady at one time or another. Your progress in the competitive field of target shooting depends largely on your ability to overcome flinching. Here is exactly what happens.

2.If you know the exact moment your pistol is going to fire, your subconscious mind orders you to brace your body against the recoil, and you do so, resulting in a flinch. The remedy is to never know the exact instant the pellet discharges. Even then your subconscious mind will brace, but the reaction time between the shot and your bracing will allow the pellet to leave the barrel without being misdirected by your flinch.

PSYCHOLOGY OF SHOOTING

1.This is a serious problem to many shooters and to some degree a problem to all shooters. I'm referring to the building up of pressure inside the shooter that makes him shoot like a novice. It is sometimes called "Involuntary Response". It prevents the shooter from shooting in matches, the scores that he shoots in practice. The best cure for this feeling is building Self Confidence. Don't keep such an accurate count of your scores that you end up in knowing that if you shoot well, you will set a new record. Just shoot your matches as they come, record your score, and forget about them.

2.Never count your competitor's score to the point that you know exactly how much you need to beat them. The advice is to spot your shots until you are sure that your sights are aligned perfectly and then finish your string without spotting any more.

3.As a match shooter you have an unenviable problem. You want to win and when you see a chance to win because of some good strings, your breath quickens, and your heart beats so fast that you can feel it in your trigger finger. As a result you usually blow a five shot string and then for the rest of the match you shoot normally. If you could just go to a match and be satisfied with your practice score; refrain from counting up your aggregates as you go; refuse to speculate on how much it will take to win; refrain from comparing competitor's scores, you would then probably shoot much better. Here again experience strengthens your ability and you begin to shoot your best scores in matches.

SUGGESTIONS TO THE BEGINNER

1.Let’s begin with equipment. You must have complete confidence in your pistol and your pellets. If you doubt either, you will blame equipment for your errors, and not correct them. Dry firing will develop and improve every element of your shooting. It’s suggested that you practice a fifteen minute session of dry-firing every day – on days that you do not shoot on the range. Simulate the range conditions as much as possible wherever you practice.

2.When you feel any fatigue or feel that you are running short of breath, by all means you should lower your arm, breathe deeply and try again, after relaxing. Some excellent shooters try this two to three times prior to getting a shot off. Always insist on having the perfect sight picture / sight alignment before applying pressure to the trigger.

TIMING THE FIRE

1.Prepare your lungs by breathing deeply prior to firing and holding it just as you align your sights. Make rhythm (interval between shots) as your prime objective. Never vary your rhythm. Adjust your recovery so that you have your sight picture in time for the next shot to go.

CONCLUSION

The theory of shooting is simple:
1.Begin with your stance, grip and breath-control. When your sight alignment is perfect, you should apply gentle pressure on the trigger and continue slowly, steadily and continuously till the shot is completed and proceed with the follow through. In practice you may sometimes find your hand shaking a bit, because your brain begins to count scores and anticipate wins. Only through experience and practice you will master the absolute co-ordination between your body, and mind – a perfect synchronicity every shooter dreams of!

Good Luck & Happy Shooting!!! :cheers:

Briha

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Re: Tips on Pistol Shooting

Post by airgun_novice » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:11 pm

dev wrote:Please forgive me for being oblique, the question that Guruji has asked seems like a Zen riddle?
My answer would be a resounding yes. But at the moment I am content with squeezing the trigger correctly.
Due to a lack of practice, my trigger squeeze is now creating a strange upward movement...so for now I shall be doing box drills till I get the feel that I used to know.
And when that feel comes back then I know that I can keep two tens per five shots;this allows me the luxury of messing with two nines and an eight. This sort of group maintained over 40 shots should have me sailing thru whatever the most quested series and another trolls in our quest.
So for the time being my answer is yes and no. :lol:
A zen riddle or rather a koan ? Now dev you have got the wheels turning - may be there is no answer to this. Or may be you do not hit the ten - the ten hits you. Ah ! That's the secret - "wax on wax off"... :cheers:

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