IOF 315 rifle and cartridge

[dev]

It almost sounds like a good story when you write about its commercial success . I really wish that it will become a nice rifle someday so that I can have one buried with me.

Regards,

Dev

What I mean was why this action. IOF could have chosen mauser action, other actions from eastern block and made 7.62 NATO or .308 or a very popular in India 30-06 rifles from the very begining. Why this crude .315 ?

Shahid, the answer as always is money. When the Indian military began adopting the FN FAL/ SLR 7.62 NATO rifle (in the mid-sixties or so), the IOFB was first tasked with transitioning the large quantities of SMLE's in current use to the 7.62 NATO cartridge, so that while the military waited for all units to be equipped with the SLR, they could at least standardise on the ammunition.

Hence for a period you had SMLE's in 7.62 along with SLR's in the same calibre in use with the military. Once all units were equipped with SLRs, the SMLE's we now "surplus". Many of these (in both .303 as well as 7.62) were issued to the para-military and police forces. This still left a HUGE store of surplus military rifles as well as now useless machinery and tooling to manufacture these rifles.

Some of the surplus rifles were given to countries even poorer than us as military aid, some seem to have found their way into the US market, where they still sell quite cheaply, but they could not be sold to civilians here as .303 and 7.62 are both military chamberings and therefore classified as PB.

Now, from here on this is purely speculation on my part - IOFB now had in it's inventory huge quantities of actions, parts and machinery to produce SMLE's, which the government no longer wanted to buy from them. So when they decided to use their surplus capacity to make products for the civilian market, it would seem obvious that they would want to put to use all this idle inventory and machinery. So what do they do? They begin by making SMLE rifles, with a sporter stock and overbored so that they are now chambered for this .315 cartridge, which incidentally also uses a case which is almost identical to the .303 case (more existing equipment being put to use again).

A starved domestic market happily laps up what it can get and the .315 is a commercial hit!

That's my reading of the situation... would be happy to hear others inputs on this.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[dev]

Maybe the author was trying sarcasm? .

Dev

"You are right. I too have heard from old shooters that the first few lots of barrels were 7.62 mm overbored. SO this seems to be the case. Match it with Lee Enfield already being made from a similar rimmed case and here you have a .315."

Er......No you don`t. The 7.62 NATO ( .308 Win ) has got nothing to do with the .315 IOF and the barrel bore/bullet diameter is smaller than either the .303 or .315.

"But mind you, THis low velocity heavy bullet does have its merits at closer ranges of 60 to 75 yards. It outperforms 30-06. At this range a 30-06 bullet has plenty of velocity to penetrate out of a light sand bag filled with a bit of dried grass and wood shavings while the .315 bullet remains inside."

Sorry, I`m trying to wrap my head around that logic......and failing. How you can say that the .315 IOF outperforms the 30-06 - at any range - is beyond me. The 30-06 beats the .315 in all departments - greater energy, higher SD, better BC. Because of its` populariity the 30-06 is available in a huge range of factory loadings from 55 gr `Accelerator` bullets to 220 gr heavyweights - and up to 240 gr if you handload. Within that wide range of bullet weights are a huge selection of bullet types. Such versatility makes it even more superior.

[Grumpy]

"Maybe the author was trying sarcasm?"

You reckon ? You`re a generous soul Dev.

[dev]

"Maybe the author was trying sarcasm?"

You reckon ? You`re a generous soul Dev.

This argument has become so boring that I have to use my imagination, the search for the 303 sporting round keeps resurrecting itself like the phoenix. But I'd rather think its more like the proverbial yeti.

Which is why I look for any excuse.

Salaams Dev

[shahid]

Where is the choice ? This costs Rs. 45,000 odd. A decent 30-06 anything from 2.5 Lakhs to 4 Lakhs. The price difference is huge, it will continue to sell.

[Sakobav]

Yup no luck Mack The Knife in postings pics..

Bestest of luck Vikram with this handsome gun..

[sentinel]

well all this hoohah about the 315 is really nice but a bit blown out.The fact is if u are tight with cash then this is the only weapon in its class you can buy in india.(New ones costing INR 40,000+, pre 80s costing about 50,000 to 60.000 INR)The 315 has been around for a long time and is extensively used throughout the country. I have a Remington 30o6, a winchester 30 30 lever action and a IOF pre 80s 315 in my family.True that the new ones are substandard but pre 80s are quite good in finish, build and preformance. If u can lay your hands on an older one u can make out the difference easily especially the grooves of the older one are much more prominent. Well cant say bout the alloy used for the bolt but surely not aluminium. Not heard of any accidents being cauzed by the bolt and hope that mine is not the first one but i think the bolt is pretty safe,hey what do u think these weapons aint tested before they reach us?

[sentinel]

Well if u want to talk about the parabolic trajectory of 315 catridge we must understand a few things about prabolics and projectiles.All bullets,arrows,catapultshots fall into the category of projectiles i.e engineless objects using another form of accelaration to move through the air.A projectile has only gravitational force workin on it including some air resistance(because it is engineless to provide the constant force to remain accelerated) it will always have a parabolic trajectory.So if we can find a bullet without parabolic trajectory it will give me something to think about.

[z375]

If at all the IOF .315 bolt shaft or bolt handle was machined from aluminium, it will be anything but the garden-variety, "curtain-rod" type, and if it was we'd be reading quite often about the consequences. Pure aluminium as most of us know, is definitely not the top choice when it comes to any application where stress is induced, the finish on the bolt shaft of the newer .315's makes it look a lot like its been crafted out of aluminium but this again could be an aluminium-dust finish applied to prevent rust and enhance aesthetic appeal in whatever way possible.

This has got to be machined/forged out of some decent, if not good sort of metal, weight-reduction IMO is not an issue with the IOF because they really dont give a damn and the folks who buy 'em dont seem to complain either.

just my 2 cents.....

[shutzen]

penpusher";p="1153"]Just back from a long holiday in the hills.Checked out the IOF 315 rifle and ammo and here is what I found:-

1.The 315 cartridge is not an invention of the IOF.I would not like to name the cartridge that they have copied.Somebody just might try to shoot the IOF ammo in the rifle for that cartridge.The cartridge is dimmensionally the same as the IOF 315 cartridge.What I have been able to find about the cartridge that forms the basis of the IOF 315 cart. is :-

HI! penpusher was just going thru this post on one of the lee enfield forums we had a long discussion over the origin of this bastardised round. The brits decieded that the Indian "natives" should only have acess to a rifle that was not high powered and not long range so that they dont go around taking potshots at the "gora saabs" so they took the french 8 MM libel and rebored the shot out .303 barrels to make this "native indian citizens rifle"


4)Ammo was earlier loaded with cordite.Fresh ammo uses some sort of powder.5)

well I had lots of opportunity to use my 315. the older lot of ammo used to give a dull thump like a heavy shotgun going off and the bullet never ever exited after entering - we just found banana split pieces : so the bonding was also poor between the jacket and the lead. However when I exhausted that lot and got a new supply - Surprise : the shot actually sounded like a rifle shot and not a thumpy shotgun. the brass and crimp part is pretty okay i guess the friggin bullet is so long and juts out and forms a lever and may actually get loose or shift to one side if not stored properly

6)The barrels are well constructed.

with my bushnell scope and homemade scope mount i get pretty good groups when I zeroed it in at 150 M

7)The action is smooth (if you choose your rifle correctly)

action is okay - u hafta maro a military style bolt - mazboot pakar and all that....

8)The factory sights are totally useless.

yeah they r a joke but we all know that frigging paint stuck flips...


As I have said ,the fresh ammo is better than what was being manufactured earlier.A friend tried it out and gave a good report about its performance.

I second that

POST EDITED. BE CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT YOU POST ON THIS FORUM.

[penpusher]

french 8 MM libel

The French one's have a caliber

penpusher

[Grumpy]

And there was I thinking that the .315 IOF was possibly based on the .303 Enfield but I now realise that to say so would be slanderous !
( LOL ! )

[mundaire]

french 8 MM libel

The French one's have a caliber
penpusher

And there was I thinking that the .315 IOF was possibly based on the .303 Enfield but I now realise that to say so would be slanderous !
( LOL ! )

You guys don't miss a trick - now do you?!!

Asides from the (unintentional, I hope.. ) pun - can anyone verify the case dimensions and other similarities between the 8mm Lebel & IOF .315?

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[shutzen]

Asides from the (unintentional, I hope.. ) pun - can anyone verify the case dimensions and other similarities between the 8mm Lebel & IOF .315?

HI! I did some follow up and found that the bullet used seems ditto the 8mm lebel but the case seems more towards the siamese Manlicher. However the chuck hawks page gives the dimensions of the 8mm lebel haveto find my vernier or if anyone else can locate his sooner than me can measure and post. here r the links:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/8mm_lebel.htm
http://www.gunsworld.com/french/bert_le ... rt_us.html

very interesting link showing various AP ammo chk out the 8 mm section midpage both the lebel and the siamese manlicher
http://www.conjay.com/Ammunition%20for% ... aneous.htm

[nagarifle]

hi every one. i have read the story on the 315. the main point it would seems are;
1/ bolt drew not smooth
2/ bed ammo case
3/ ammo doing damage to the rifling and berral.

so can a differnt ammo be used?(non IOF)? if so which one.
as for the bolt action and stock can not the user do some work on it to make it smoth and good or why can not a gunsmith do it? as i am thinking to get one any advice will help,
ta mates