IOF 315 rifle and cartridge

[Sujay]

Strange.... how a fitter is allowed to run amuck

At least we now know the culprit by name

" feather in his cap "..... " achievement of higest order" ........sickening

[kanwar76]

You know first I thought they are sharam awards rather than Shram awards ........

The Rifle Factory, Ishapore produces both military and civilian weapons of international standard for national and international market

Who ever wrote this ever seen any foreign make Gun? Show them al cheepo Baikal's and ask them to compare it with S*S made by them.

&*^^&(^%@

-Inder

[penpusher]

Try this from page 31 onwards
http://164.100.24.208/ls/CommitteeR/Defence/7threp.pdf
Tells you why we pay the highest price in the world for iron scrap . Rather,perfectly good metal spoilt by the IOF

penpusher

[penpusher]

Report of the Standing Committe of Defence 2005-2006,Page 31,
based on what it has been told by the IOF rep.


8.3 As regards pricing of products of non-defence sector, the
following system is follows:
(a) MHA is charged 5% more than the price charged to Armed
Forces with an aim to offset the capital financing charges
(met from Defence Budget).
(b) Supply to Civil Trade and Export sector is effected at a
maximum price that can be absorbed by the market with
an aim to recover full cost and profit. The profit so
generated is taken into consideration at the time of fixation
of price of defence products with a view to pass on the
benefit to defence sector as Ordnance Factories do not have
mandate to retain profit. A profit of Rs. 164.32 crore has
been generated from supply to non-defence sector during
2003-2004.

What I would like to know is to what extent was this profit really used to subsidise the defence purchases.

penpusher

[shahid]

The origins of this calibre certainly date back to the Lee Enfield .303. Based on the same action a .303 Bitish sporting calibre was introduced in 1920s, which still exists.

The .315 round with this 244 grain bullet was first designed by BSA of Birmingham for general sporting purpose use. The calibre originally was developed by Mauser of Germany, and the .315 perhaps had a military history of service or research earlier. But the general idea was to create a calibre different from Police or Military use.

The IOF chose this over 7.62 mm calibres like the 30-06 or .308, because the technology and machines came from BSA, also for the 12 Bore gun that was made at Icchapore factory, it was also a BSA derivative. The rest is history and we have the legacy of this .315 cartridge which fires allright most of the times, but the mishaps associated with it like empty case breaking inside the chamber, empty shell jammed, expansion, bullet breaking at the neck joint, copper jacked related issues, the list is endless. The .315 rifle related issues also form a long list, from parts falling apart, to flawed extrators, loose safety catch, sights not aligning , the list is endless really.

[shahid]

I would request our IFG members to kindly update on the status of our IOF .315 NP bore rifle.

When I left the Indian shores, a brand new Rifle used to cost Rs. 15,000 and a cartridge around Rs. 19.

What is the status now ? My last bit of news was that a .315 in Kevlar stock was offered to NRAI members some 4 to 5 years ago. I remember by brother buying one from NRAI in Delhi for some figure close to Rs. 30,000 but he didn't like it, being used to shooting with BRNO 30-06 and BRNO . 275, and he sold it very soon.

What's the price now and any improvements on it. Does it have a scope rail or a dovetail groove for fixing a scope now ?

[art_collector]

Hi Shahid,

You expect too much .....in too short a time......315 Bore rifle hasnt changed a bit.....the bolt is hard as stone and often difficult to get out of the weapon...........the stock is unchanged....the only change they brought about was they introduced plastic butts...........but I think it failed as u dont see any more rifles with these butts any more. All rifles are still painted black....blueing is unheard of.

AC

[Sujay]

Shahid,

In our previous E Group ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/indians4guns/ ) ; you can find a review of this equipment by Jonah Pachuau. To me, it remains the best review of the 0.315 till date.

[Mack The Knife]

Sujay,

Any chance you could copy and paste it here?

Mack The Knife

[Sujay]

Re: Regarding IOF .315 rifle

"even a local blaksmith could build a better one"

that was my reaction also when i saw the IOF 315 rilfe for the first time.

i did not even bother to shoot it, the damm thing was so crudely made
that i did not even want to hold it in my hands !!

rajat

--- In [email protected], Jonah Pachuau wrote:

I recently had a chance to checkout a OFB .315 rifle and I think its a bloody shame. OFB should not be selling such weapons to the public. Even local craftsmen or blacksmiths can build a better one. I couldnt make out but i suspect the bolt action to be made of alluminium! Finishing is a very poor paint job of the kind that would make my son cringe. It is full of accumulated paint at all joints and crevices of the rifle. The wood seems to be somekind of banyan! Foresight cover seems to be made of tin sheet! and is not perfectly round. Bolt action is sticky and very suspicious. Its high time that the civilian sector is allowed to compete in the defence sector. India would have nothing to loose. I dont know why some of our bigger companies like TATA, MAHINDRA & MAHINDRA, RELIANCE etc. are not allowed to contribute to the defence industry. Only when such names come out with their small arms
brands will we be able to have quality weapons.


--- penpusher

Tried to find Abhijeet's views on the IOF .315 rifle on Google but got nothing.It's the cheapest centre fire rifle for which ammo. is readily available and therefore I decided to have a look at it. I have fired the Ishapore 2A in 7.62 and thought it to reasonably accurate.I have never fired the .315. I have used the IOF .22.The first one that I bought,I had to get it exchanged.Closing the bolt was very hard after chambering a round and then it would not eject untill the round in thechamber had been fired.Infact the extractor woul simply slip over the rim.The boltwould pull back with the round still in the chamber.The second one is better, but with its own problems.I had to get the mag. spring changed as the cart.s would hang up in the mag.and the mag. had to be hit for them to move up.Now the main problem is that the bolt shaves off a bit
of the lead of the bullet of the cart. below the one to be chambered,affecting accuracy,no doubt.I had the IOF .32 revolver before I sold it to buy a .32S&W.It had a horrible triger pull.I have got large hands(I am 6.1)and the lever for the break open barrel would dig into my thumb every time I fired it.As far as the IOF pistol is concerned my xperience has been limited to firing a couple of rounds from somebodies elses pistol.I felt that the point of impact kept on shifting quite bit.It would fire the first round below the second one while using the double tap.The sights are infact almost non-existent though it is a better product than the revolver.I saw a Pak. Made revolver in .32S&W alloted to an Airforce Officer that was better than the IOF revolver.It was seven shot with a larger
frame than the IOF rev. though it too was copy of the webbley revolverwith as atrocious a pull as the Indian made rev.


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/indians4guns/message/846

[Mack The Knife]

Thanks, Sujay.

[shahid]

My experiences.

1996

Returned to camp one night at 4 AM after a night out. Was walking back in sleep and the safety catch bolt, plate, safety catch fell off.

1990

Fired a .315 round. On pulling the bolt the cartridge case broke in half. broken case jammed inside the chamber. .315 shooters better carry ramrods with them. Old Muzzle loader style.

[shahid]

Arrey this is exactly what I was trying to figure out. I was not sure whether the .303 British Sporting round was rimmed or rimless. Later we found a picture in a book.

I remembered the NCC .303 rifles we fired. Rimmed yes but bullets were pointed, not soft nose and metal jacketed like the sporting rounds. Then I found it is 150 grains.

Rimmed .303 sporting means rifles with Lee Enfield action could be manufactured. Use of this cartridge perhaps led to .315 being made with same action.

I have seen English made .315 by BSA with my own eyes with the same action. Whether BSA made it, got it made, got it from Europe, BSA's dog made it for him is not my concern. A few of these rifles are there in India. At least in UP / Bihar.

If someone is trying to research something through the good annals of IFG is it good manners to call him a BS and liar? What kind of nonsense is it?

[Grumpy]

As has been said, there is no such calibre as the `.303 Sporting`, there is just the .303. The .303 is a rimmed cartridge.
( Ignoring the .303 Savage which is a completely different calibre. )
Hunting - sporting - anmunition is made in .303 calibre with bullet weights varying from 150 gr ( Hornady, Federal, Prvi Partizan, S&B etc ) to 174 gr ( Prvi Partizan ) and 180 gr ( Winchester, Remington. Federal, S&B ) for example and bullets for hand loading are available up to at least 215gr.
In that respect there is no difference with any other military calibre for which hunting ammunition is available - the .223 Rem ( 5.56 NATO ), 6.5x55, 7x57, 8x57,
.308 Win ( 7.62 NATO ) and 30-06 and many more examples were/are all military calibres.
It is possible that the IOF .315 was developed from the .303 although other candidates have been suggested.
BSA did NOT manufacture any Lee Enfield/SMLE actions post WWII. As I said some time ago, they might have rebarrelled some Lee Enfields/SMLEs for IOF in .315 but it`s equally or more likely that IOF rebarrelled some BSA manufactured actions themselves.

[shahid]

IOF did not exist, as an Indian Civil weapons manufacturer prior to WWII.

Whatever BSA sold was sold on their own reputation.

Pre independence very few sections or divisions of IOF existed. Most were for supplies to British Imperial army in India and Asia.

You may be absolutely right on the dates. It is possible that these BSA rifles of .315 calibre were made before 1945. Most of the guns doing the rounds in India date back to pre WW 2.