The Rolls Royce of ML replica revolvers

[tirpassion]

Hello TC,

I always thought Uberti made the best replicas.

That is what they claim 'Worlds best Replicas'. It is quite far from reality. If you think of reenactment scenarios, they are perfect. But for target shooting, a bit of luck is needed. Having said that, if the revolvers are fine tuned, they can be excellent but first of all, you have to have one whose chambers are perfectly aligned with the barrel. As I said, the quality of material is poor specially the steel compared to the German steel. They have improved the 1858 Remington since 3/4 years now and the reviews are quite good.

A small story. I bought an Uberti Revolver '1858 Remington navy' in .36 caliber from Hege, Germany. In fact, the revolver has a German Hege Barrel, the rest are made in Italy and fine tuned by Hege in Germany. The price tag was 200 Euros more. The revolver was excellent in accuracy. Two years later, after about 700 shots went through it, the hammer mechanism broke and it was irreparable. Uberti modified the frame in these 2 years and the new hammer did not fit in. Luckily, it was still in the guarantee period and it was replaced by an 'Improved' version of the 1858, which shoots really great.

But to tell you about the Feinwerkbau R&S revolver, German quality, I had measured the diameters of the chambers of the cylinder with a digital caliper. All the 6 chambers are perfectly same to the 100th of a millimeter. Once, the hammer is cocked, the cylinder does not have any, absolutely no lateral movement, so well it has been machined.

I should stop now. You know Black Powder / ML is a dangerous bug. If you are bitten once, it is hard to get rid of it's effects

Best regards
tirpassion

[timmy]

tirpassion:

Very nice piece you have there! There's nothing like holding a quality firearm of any sort, in my mind. The fit and finish looks very good!

I agree with you regarding the Italian replicas. However, I wonder if you've had the chance to work with the Ruger "Old Army" model that was discontinued a few years ago. My experience was that the Old Army was quite well made, compared to the replicas.

[xl_target]

Very Nice revolver there Tirpassion,

Tim,
The first black powder revolver I fired was a Ruger "Old Army" that belonged to a friend of mine in college.
It was like a communist era tank (very robust) and accurate.

[tirpassion]

I agree with you regarding the Italian replicas. However, I wonder if you've had the chance to work with the Ruger "Old Army" model that was discontinued a few years ago. My experience was that the Old Army was quite well made, compared to the replicas.
Regards,
tim

You are absolutely right tim. The ruger old army is excellent. I did not go for it because it is a modern weapon with adjustable sights with no historical background (replica) and hence not allowed in the MLAIC affiliated competitions.

regards
tirpassion

[tirpassion]

Thanks x_l target

regards
tirpassion

[TC]

I should stop now. You know Black Powder / ML is a dangerous bug. If you are bitten once, it is hard to get rid of it's effects

Tirpassion, continue pampering the bug. Its doing a get job

Agree with you.. Few can match German quality and craftsmanship as far as cars and guns go.. Must be true for many more..

Regards

TC

[tirpassion]

Few can match German quality and craftsmanship as far as cars and guns go..

As you said rightly Tanmay.

The Rolls Royce/Maybach of revolvers: Korth, made in Germany
The Rolls Royce/Maybach of pistols: Korriphila, made in Germany

I did not have any chance to shoot the above weapons. But in revolvers, I had the opportunity to shoot S&W, Colt python and the Manurhin MR73. I found the French made Manurhin MR73 to be the best in accuracy and smoothness of shooting. It is also very finely made. Price wise, it is placed very high too after the Korth. May be some day...

But to top up everything, I will assure you that my Feinwerkbau ML revolver is more accurate than the above mentioned revolvers. Maybe with correct loading and tuning of the gun, the modern guns will shoot equally well, but with the commercially available bullets the accuracy is compromised in comparison to the demands of the target shooters.

best regards
tirpassion

[TC]

Tirpassion, I have never touched or fired a muzzle loader in my life... Seen many at museums across India though. I really appreciate your passion for ML guns.

I have read a lot about Korth and Korrphilla but you will be surprised to know that few of these were brought into India before the ban on import. The German handguns mostly seen in our country are Walthers (mostly the .32 PP and PPK and a few TPH made by Interarms in USA) and Mausers (mostly the .32 Hsc).

Oh I do own a six inch Colt in the Python frame but a different model...

Regards

TC.

[Mark]

I agree with you regarding the Italian replicas. However, I wonder if you've had the chance to work with the Ruger "Old Army" model that was discontinued a few years ago. My experience was that the Old Army was quite well made, compared to the replicas.
Regards,
tim

You are absolutely right tim. The ruger old army is excellent. I did not go for it because it is a modern weapon with adjustable sights with no historical background (replica) and hence not allowed in the MLAIC affiliated competitions.

regards
tirpassion

Tirpassion,

I agree 100%. If I were to recommend a cap and ball revolver with no other criteria, the Ruger Old Army. Actually, a Ruger Old Army in Stainless with rosewood grips.

However, to me the wonderful things about these revolvers is to see how the designers thought, and then to see how they shoot.

I have a reproduction 1860 Army that I will do a write up about eventually. It has been in the family for about 50 years but sadly it was very neglected when my parents got older, so it was terrribly rusty when my father passed away. As a goal, I will do a somewhat quick refurbishing of it before the Labor Day IFG meet here at my facilities, and it will be available for anyone interested to shoot then.

Anyway, enough of my hijack, please tell us about the MLAIC?

[tirpassion]

Hello Mark,

The worldwide Competition governing body is MLAIC (Muzzle Loaders Associations International Committee) where you will find rules and disciplines we shoot both with handguns and long guns at different distances.
http://www.mlaic.org

Handguns are shot at 25m on a C50 target (the 10 ring is of 5cm diameter and the whole black ring, the 7 ring is of 20cm) both in original and replica categories. Revolvers are shot at both 25m and 50m.
The hand gun event are as follows:
Kuchenreuter (Original or replica): Single shot percussion pistol
Mariette: Replica revolver shot at 25m
Colt: Original revolver shot at 25m
Donald Malson (Original or Replica): Revolver shot at 50m. It has to be the same revolver used for 25m
Cominazzo (Original or Replica): Flintlock pistol with a smooth barrel
Tanzutsu (Original or Replica): Matchlock pistol with a smooth barrel

Long guns are shot at 50m, 100m, 300m to even at 1000 yards on varied target sizes according to the gun and distance.

The USA is an active member of the MLAIC and sends a strong contingent of shooters in the World Championships, held every 2 years. In the medals tally however, Germany tops very often with a large margin. Other strong teams are Sweden, France & Spain.

In many European countries including France, official championships are held at the district, regional and national level according to the MLAIC rules. MLAIC organises European and World Championships every 2 years.

A few words on Muzzle loaders in competitions.

By definition, any original weapon manufactured before September 1873 can be used for the MLAIC competitions in 'Original' category. Any exact replica (look and mechanism) of guns made before September 1873 can be used in the 'Replica' category.
So all replicas are made today with modern CNC machines but has to be approved by MLAIC for competiton use.
For the shooting rules, ISSF rules are generally followed.

Till 300m, rules are:
13 shots in 30 minutes. No sighters. Best 10 shots are counted. More than 50% of the impact has to be inside a ring to be counted. For example, if an impact is touching the 9 ring but more than 50% of the diameter of the impact is on the outer side, it will be counted as 8. So the counting process is a bit frustrating.

regards
tirpassion

[TC]

Its a completely different world... quite fascinating I must say... thank you Tirpassion

Cheers

TC

[brihacharan]

quote="airgun_novice"

Your example of "santoor" click reminds me of a scene from The Good The Bad The Ugly. The "Bad" actually assembles a pistol from parts of a few he dissembles and one of the factors is the click of the chamber. tirpassion and brihji, you are tempting me to try my hand out at firearms. [/quote]

AGN,
> You brought back some pleasant memories of the scene from the movie Good Bad & the Ugly.
> The character who disassembles several hand guns & reassembles them & finally tries out the cylinder by putting his ear close while rotating the cylinder to hear the "CLICKS" was played by "ELI WALLACH" (how's my memory)
> Like "Aroma Therapy" there is also "AUDIO THERAPY" & some of the favorite sounds that gives me a high are:
1. The opening & closing of a rifle bolt
2. The rotary clicks when a the cylinder of a revolver is rotated (as in Good Bad Ugly)
3. The pulling back of the hammer in a single shot revolver
> In the jungles the 'Coughing' of a Leopard / The 'Snorting' of the Bison / The 'Bellowing' of a Sambhar / The 'Shrill Call' of the Racket Tailed Drongo are a few of the sounds that are etched in my memory.
> BTW the shrill call of the Racket Tailed Drongo (looks somewhat like a cukoo) is a warning to all denizens in the jungle informing the presence of a Tiger / Leopard nearby! I am simply amazed at the peaceful co-existance amongst animals / birds in the wilderness & how interdependent they are.
> Now back to you being tempted about tryiing 'Fire Arms' - let me tell you, the experience has to be 'Experienced' to know the joy / thrill of shooting one
Cheers
Briha

[airgun_novice]

ELI WALLCH -> Memory or google, Brihji ? anyway, will have to give you that one as I never quite followed his name. Lee Van Cliff starred in couple more with Clint Eastwood, but as a Good guy team member. Music to y ears is when wife tells me "I want to visit y folks for a couple of days." Anyway, enough of digression. Inshallah, I shall try my hands on a firearm soon. BTW had firearm baptism through Monty on a couple of shotty shells at Balewadi.

[tirpassion]

Dear friends,

please have a look at this topic in case you are interested to know how the ML revolver is shot.
http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17628

best regards
tirpassion

[BowMan]

Very nice percussion cap revolver there mate. There is something about the feel and nostalgia of these old guns which cannot be matched by the modern polymer designs.

However technically is it a muzzle loading gun as it is charged at the cylinder and not muzzle?