Need help to buy a SHORT self defence gun

TC · Post by TC » Fri May 04, 2012 8:23 pm

Friends,

I want to buy a VERY short barrel (at least 21 inch to meet Arms Act regulation) 12 gauge single or double barrel shotgun that can be carried in a backpack without dismantling and stashed inside a car with round/s in the chamber. I need a pistol grip or a folding stock. Today I went to an old friend's shop and checked out three models made by "Magnum", "Shaktiman" and ...( forgot the third name )... that are available in Kolkata. Please let me know if other Indian companies make similar guns that are lightweight and aesthetically finished.

Let me clarify that I am ideally looking for the legal version of a "sawed off shotgun"(Remember Mad Max

) that can be deployed fast and carried without much hassle. One option could be buying a cheap second hand Jeffrey or something similar and saw off the barrels and butt. But that would only destroy a good weapon. Moreover getting a good gunsmith to fix the rib and make a grip is almost as impossible as convincing the arms experts in our city police department that the gun is "authentic."

I normally pack when I travel to "unsafe" places. But no matter how rare it may be, carrying a handgun all day can be a real pain in Bengal's hot and humid climate. Since I am not very well acquainted with shotguns manufactured in India I will look forward to replies to this thread before taking the final call.

Thanks and best wishes

TC

YouTube · Post by **mundaire** » Fri May 04, 2012 8:38 pm

It'll be a b**ch to shoot, but I'd suggest get an IOF shotty in good nick and have the needful done. It is by far the best Indian made double. The private shotgun manufacturers made some really decent single barrels, but I have yet to see a single double barrel shotgun made by any of them which is as well made as the IOF. Of course, I am no expert, the above is merely my opinion.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

TC · Post by TC » Sat May 05, 2012 2:06 am

mundaire wrote:It'll be a b**ch to shoot, but I'd suggest get an IOF shotty in good nick and have the needful done. It is by far the best Indian made double. The private shotgun manufacturers made some really decent single barrels, but I have yet to see a single double barrel shotgun made by any of them which is as well made as the IOF. Of course, I am no expert, the above is merely my opinion.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Thanks Abhijeet,
Ha ha ha. Ya it will be a b...ch to shoot but a sawed off scatter gun is a scary b...ch and gets the job done. Moreover I will probably never have to use it as a life saver (hope so

).
I have heard about the IOF DBBL too but getting the shortening job done is a big problem as I mentioned. You are right, the desi SBBLs were much better. I will go through some more feedbacks. Lets see

Thanks
TC

dr.jayakumar · Post by **dr.jayakumar** » Sat May 05, 2012 9:35 am

friend,
you can saw off the butt or extend the stock another meter,but don't think about sawing off the barrel it is illegal.and there is no sawed of guns available legally.
iof comes with pistol grip and also foldables.
i feel dbbl is good for self protection at home and farm.it will not serve you, when in car.
regards
dr.jk

TC · Post by TC » Sat May 05, 2012 2:17 pm

Thanks Priyan.
I may sound old fashioned but if I am destined to die from gunshot injury then no bullet proof jacket can save me. But let me clarify that there is no threat to my life. Sometimes I travel to remote places and troubled areas close to my country home. If I feel there is a need then I carry one of my handguns. But as I mentioned packing a gun all day is a pain. I have done and still do some gunsmithing at home and at my uncle's workshop but chopping of a gun barrel really destroys a weapon and no amount of hard work can save the day. Several Indian companies are making 21 inch barrel guns with pistol grips and folding stock. I have seen a few. I am trying to find out if there are more that are lighter and look better.
Thanks again

TC

TC · Post by TC » Sat May 05, 2012 2:28 pm

dr.jayakumar wrote:friend,
you can saw off the butt or extend the stock another meter,but don't think about sawing off the barrel it is illegal.and there is no sawed of guns available legally.
iof comes with pistol grip and also foldables.
i feel dbbl is good for self protection at home and farm.it will not serve you, when in car.
regards
dr.jk

Thanks drjayakumar
I know sawing off a barrel is illegal. That is why Arms Act allows no less than 21 inches. But when old guns get damaged at the muzzle end gunsmiths do chop off a couple of inches to save these weapons. I did one myself. But these are exceptions.
Does IOF make DBBLs with pistol grips and folding stocks ? I thought these are all aftermarket accessories. Need to widen my search it seems.

Best wishes
TC

Post by **Vikram** » Sat May 05, 2012 2:50 pm

Priyan wrote:BTW anybody can saw-off a shotgun, as long as you have access to a bandsaw (hacksaw works too) shaping the grip is not hard, even Bubba can manage to do it. You can silver solder the ribs if you are patient enough easily.
Speaking of carrying it in backpack for SD, Just remember the expandiang ammunition law and use a choke that gives tighter pattern since you don't wanna injure some bystander in self-defense.

Do you read what you write before you post?

There is a law that stipulates a mandatory minimum length.After you saw the barrels off, how can you use a choke?What is the expanding ammunition law?

Best-
ViKRAM

Post by **Vikram** » Sat May 05, 2012 2:55 pm

TC,

You may consider getting an appropriate holster from US that makes conceal carry quite easy and after sometime, you may not even notice it. I am sure you must have tried it, but that's just a thought.

You can also consider sourcing an IOF Pump gun for civilians.Difficult they say,but you never know.

http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10627

Best-
Vikram

YouTube · Post by **mundaire** » Sat May 05, 2012 3:59 pm

As per the Arms Act shortening the length of a gun barrel can only be done by a licensed gunsmith who has this activity specifically endorsed on his gunsmith license... makes sense or not, that my friends is the law!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Post by **Vikram** » Sat May 05, 2012 5:04 pm

Priyan wrote:The length was 21" AFAIK. I meant he can get a short custom barrel. I used the wrong term I guess, I meant to say multiple projectile is banned for use if the diameter of individual projectile larger than 5mm. In case of using one, it carries the death penalty. I guess BBB should be OK, not sure though.

Where and how do you get a "short custom barrel"? Who makes those in India? Any idea how much would that cost? Priyan, your passion for firearms and enthusiasm to help are appreciable.However, it is wise not to give suggestions about stuff we do not know. There is no shame is asking and the only stupid question is the one unasked when it comes to learning. Do you understand what I say?

Best-
Vikram

Post by **Vikram** » Sat May 05, 2012 8:25 pm

Priyan,

I most certainly empathise with you. I learnt a great deal from the internet, I still do and I will in future. Many of us here have been in your shoes.You are still young and you never know what is in store for you.Even in India, owning and buying a gun is not impossible.And when you ask, there will be many to help here. I can assure you that.

I think you are missing my point here. I am advising against talking about stuff that we have little understanding of.After all the question is very specific and technical in nature.That is not discouraging from discussing or participating? Do you understand me?

You will not be banned from activities like this? Why would you think that? However, you,or anyone else, will get banned when they violate the board rules. What you did on this thread does not fall in that category. Again, you need to appreciate the fact that this not discouraging you from participating or sharing your enthusiasm for guns.

Best-
Vikram

goodboy_mentor · Post by **goodboy_mentor** » Sat May 05, 2012 9:10 pm

Any shotgun barrel that is not less than twenty inches can be possessed on NPB license. Any shotgun barrel that is less than twenty inches can be possessed on PB license.

As already told by mundaire you can look for IOF DBBL in good condition or some other well made Indian shotgun. You can get its barrel shortened, modified with folding butt and pistol grips as desired. Some north Indian shotgun manufacturers also make such shotguns. If you search this forum you will find such manufacturers. This website also appears to be selling such accessories http://www.gunaccessory.com/accessories/

As far as question about convincing the babus in Arms Act department, if they are of some unreasonable mindset simply because they have never seen such a gun before, you may get the changes done after you get the gun officially endorsed on your license.

Nitro Express · Post by **Nitro Express** » Sun May 06, 2012 11:12 am

Hello TC!

Ask one of the Calcutta dealers to show you a short barreled gun made my Oriental Arms CO.It should suit your requirement.

Infact, I carry a short single barreled full stock gun made by Oriental as a backup when I am in the field.They are light to carry with decent build quality.I suggest you stay off the pistol grip ones.

I am posting the link to their website below -

http://www.orientalarms.co.in

Regards,
NItro Express

Bruno22 · Post by **Bruno22** » Sun May 06, 2012 2:01 pm

You may also invest in a Maxpadition carry pack that affords you a very nice slide in Holster compartment and is very fast and easy to draw. These bags are comfortable to carry around all day in hot n humid areas. You could also stash away goodies like a collapsible baton, a nice sturdy folder, pepper spray and what not in the same bag to help you along on your adventures. In my opinion its still simpler to carry a handgun rather than a shotgun even if it rides in your backpack.
Bruno22

only32owner · Post by **only32owner** » Sun May 06, 2012 4:01 pm

Nitro Express wrote:Hello TC!

Ask one of the Calcutta dealers to show you a short barreled gun made my Oriental Arms CO.It should suit your requirement.

Infact, I carry a short single barreled full stock gun made by Oriental as a backup when I am in the field.They are light to carry with decent build quality.I suggest you stay off the pistol grip ones.

I am posting the link to their website below -

http://www.orientalarms.co.in

Regards,
NItro Express

Hi Nitro Express
thanks for sharing the website link, apart for IOF this is the first time I have seen a website for any Indian gun manufacturer. Very happy to see it.

Now it will be eassier for TC for his selection, Best of Luck TC.

Regards.

Indians For Guns

Indians For Guns