Acid Etching, Vinegar/Mustard & Bleach Patinas

[Moin.]

Seeing Choombak's pics of the J. Mason fixed blade in 1095 steel with a patina by vinegar and mustard really got me curious. A bit of googling and some very intersting results. Has anyone tried this before. Please go through this link. Check out how gorgeous the Beckers Look Acid Etched.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... CS-POST-25

Amar;s blade is in 1095, the Beckers in the post above are 1095. This kind of patina with Bleach/PCB Acid or darkening with boiled Vinegar & Mustard can be done for what kinds of steel apart from 1095.

Will appreciate some info, the blades look really pretty.


Regards
Moin.

[kalashnikovcult]

moin i have an idea..should we try that with pepsi or coke, we can have a wire mesh tightly wound around the blade and then dip it in pepsi or coke for like a few hours or a day...pepsi also contains acid wondering if that would work

[Rajat]

Moin: you can etch almost all kinds of steel other than the 1095. It will be much easier for non stainless steels OTHER than the ones considered stainless S30V, 60V, 90V , 154CM etc as these are comparatively less reactive. In simple words this will be much easier with steels that get rusted easily like 1095, D2, CPM 3V etc as these will easily get corroded by the chemicals.

BUT it is possible to etch almost all steels / metals with advanced and stronger chemicals but will take more time and efforts etc.

What you are doing is basically protecting parts (at random) of the blade with a coating and allow the other areas to get corroded through exposure with another agent. This is what gives the patina.

The blades do look beautiful but why ruin them specially with the permanent and deep marking patinas Use them hard and you will get a better and realistic of patina

Kalashnikov: you are missing the point. I do not know if pepsi will work or not but the wire mesh definitely will not work or end its pattern to the blade. The substance coating / covering the blade must "stick" to it not allowing random areas to get corroded. Wire mesh will not do this.

[Moin.]

moin i have an idea..should we try that with pepsi or coke, we can have a wire mesh tightly wound around the blade and then dip it in pepsi or coke for like a few hours or a day...pepsi also contains acid wondering if that would work

Acid in Pepsi or Coke ?? Wow, we must start drinking beer instead

On a serious note did'
nt know pepsi or Coke had acid or any corrosive properties for that matter Kalashnikovcult...

Regards
Moin.

[Moin.]

Moin: you can etch almost all kinds of steel other than the 1095. It will be much easier for non stainless steels OTHER than the ones considered stainless S30V, 60V, 90V , 154CM etc as these are comparatively less reactive. In simple words this will be much easier with steels that get rusted easily like 1095, D2, CPM 3V etc as these will easily get corroded by the chemicals.

BUT it is possible to etch almost all steels / metals with advanced and stronger chemicals but will take more time and efforts etc.

What you are doing is basically protecting parts (at random) of the blade with a coating and allow the other areas to get corroded through exposure with another agent. This is what gives the patina.

The blades do look beautiful but why ruin them specially with the permanent and deep marking patinas Use them hard and you will get a better and realistic of patina

Kalashnikov: you are missing the point. I do not know if pepsi will work or not but the wire mesh definitely will not work or end its pattern to the blade. The substance coating / covering the blade must "stick" to it not allowing random areas to get corroded. Wire mesh will not do this.

Hi Rajat; Thank you as always for the everpresent sound advice. I had thought so, higher the carbon content in the blade, better and quicker the patina/etching.

I've been browsing the blade forums for such mods, the blades look absolutely gorgeous, ultra modern heat treated steels with an old school charm to them. More of a khujli to try it out. Yes, don't want to ruin a sypderco or a BM, trying it out on El Cheapo Blades first

Check these out, done on a Becker...











Regards
Moin.

[Moin.]

Did'nt have any Vinegar or Mustard or acid laying around except Mum's Fabric Whitener "ALA" Lot of Chlorine Content, so why not try. Dipped a cheap folder for a few hours. Dippes in half, to see the results. The oxidation was very heavy at the the surface of the bleach in the botlle, no idea why ?? Did not get the heavy oxidation on the blade like shown in the first post. The stupid folder must be chromed...






Ala does not work well, so this morning, have brought some White Vinegar to try out a dark finish ( want to try a hmmon like pattern ), candles for the wax to protect the portions of the blade where teh original finish has to be maintained, Surgical Spirit to get rid of any oils or residues on the blades, Hydrochloric Acid, (Ferric Chloride or PCB Board Acid, not avalable nearby) and some disposable latex gloves and scotchbrite.. ( all this gyan from youtube videos ). Let's see if this works.

[mundaire]

Following this thread with interest, do keep us posted on how the DIY finish works out (preferably with photos at each stage)!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

P.S. - How do you plan to remove the nickel/ chrome plating? Why not try going to someone who does electroplating, he should be only too happy to (reverse the polarity and) remove the metal plating.

[Moin.]

Following this thread with interest, do keep us posted on how the DIY finish works out (preferably with photos at each stage)!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

P.S. - How do you plan to remove the nickel/ chrome plating? Why not try going to someone who does electroplating, he should be only too happy to (reverse the polarity and) remove the metal plating.

Thanks Abhijeet. Trying this on cheaper blades first before moving to more expensive ones. Removing the elctroplating wont be required. Conc. HCL has done it's job. Dipped the above shown folder in a can of Hydrochloric acid for about 30 minutes. All the chrome platings gone and the blades acquired a beautiful deep grey finish. Will keep it for a few hours and see what happens, It's a Rs.20 folder


Here are some pics

DIPPED DIRECTLY IN A CAN OF CONC. HCL.



THIS IS THE SAME BLADE SHOWN ABOVE THAT WAS DIPPED OVERNIGHT IN ALA FABRIC WHITENER. AFTER A 30 MINS HCL BATH IT HAS A LOVELY DEEP GREY FINISH. THE ETCH THAT YOU SEE IN THE CENTER OF THE BLADE IS WHERE HEAVY RUSTING HAD HAPPENED, SO I GUESS A STRONGER BLEACH WOULD GIVE A BETTER ETCH PATTERN ON A HIGH CARBON STEEL BLADE.

[Moin.]

I saw a lot of Youtube videos on Patina with boiled vinegar which is Acetic Acid, since HCL is stronger than acetic acid and is working faster as well, here's my first try...

This is a Nieto Campera Folder in 440C Steel. Trying to get a false Japanese type of Hamon on the blade. Used a candle to drop wax on the blade where I want to retain the polished finish and protect these areas from darkening..

HERE's THE NIETO, A WAX CANDLE, MY ZIPPO. THE BLADE WAS FIRST CLEANED WITH SOAP THEN WITH SURGICAL SPIRIT TO REMOVE ALL OILS AND RESIDUES.









Will see what happens to the cheapo folder after aq few hours in the HCl Bath, then it's the Nieto's turn. For those are not familiar with what a Hamon is here's a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamon_(swordsmithing)

Regards
Moin.

[Rajat]

Boy! You seem to be enjoying today

Always good to see DIY stuff! Waiting to see the results.

Just a word of advice, the surgical spirit will not work as it would be simple denatured ethyl alcohol. You need a better solvent to clean up the oil / wax etc. Try Acetone, most commonly available as cheap nail paint remover or else try petrol to clean up the surface. There are many other options available but these two are the easiest to find.

In different finishes HCL is often used as the first step to clean things and remove plating, rust etc. When you take out Iron after a dip it will be grey and will turn dark grey after drying. To make it look red or dark brown or for a rust finish some people use HNO3 (Nitric acid), you may also try H2SO4 for a different finish.

If you buy these acids concentrated then dilute these first with water or else be prepared for some very strong Red fumes (from the HNO3) and a lot of angry bubbling from the reaction.

I dont know if this information will be helpful in what you are doing.

Other examples of commonly available strong bleaches and oxidizing agents: Kiwi Drainex; Hydrogen Peroxide (available at medical stores), HCL and HNO3 are available at shops selling school Lab supplies and shops selling construction materials, paints etc; to neutralize the acids afterwards wash with soap as these are alkaline in nature or try baking soda

Wear eye protection at all times.

Now lets see what you cook!

[Moin.]

Boy! You seem to be enjoying today

Always good to see DIY stuff! Waiting to see the results.

Just a word of advice, the surgical spirit will not work as it would be simple denatured ethyl alcohol. You need a better solvent to clean up the oil / wax etc. Try Acetone, most commonly available as cheap nail paint remover or else try petrol to clean up the surface. There are many other options available but these two are the easiest to find.

In different finishes HCL is often used as the first step to clean things and remove plating, rust etc. When you take out Iron after a dip it will be grey and will turn dark grey after drying. To make it look red or dark brown or for a

Thanks Rajat;

What should be done to get this type of oxidation on the blade ?? Ala did'nt work, so brought this Bleaching Powder.

[/img]

AKHRI UMEED, SANTOSH BLEACHING POWDER...

[Moin.]

yIPPEEE, Santosh Bleaching Powder Works. Just 5 minutes into a thick milk like concotion of bleaching powder and water, the blades's heavily oxidised...





Will leave it for about 45 minutes or so and see what happens....

[mundaire]

You've probably thought of this already, but do make sure all of this process is done in a very well ventilated area - balcony, terrace, backyard etc. would be ideal. Will keep you & yours safe from the fumes and most certainly save you a tongue lashing from the better half as well...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Rajat]

What should be done to get this type of oxidation on the blade ??

Concentrated Nitric acid will do it in a minute. It works for plain Iron. Locally called Shorey Ka Tezaab



I was not kidding about Kiwi Drainex. Pretty strong stuff. Who knows it might work

[Rajat]

Oh! You can also use Pottasium Permangnate KMnO4. Availability should not be a problem. A strong oxidizer and leaves pretty strong stains on metal and near about on any surface.

Also try Alum.

In the traditional way of finishing Faulad and Sankela blades some craftsmen also use Amla and Ritha but the only difference here is that the "patina" / Jauhar is inherently present in that case.