Obsolete calibered rifles to remember.

[TwoRivers]

The .465 thats a caliber, propels a 480gr at 2375fps...that would be quite flat shooting for its weight.

Pritu: You are confusing the old .465 H&H Nitro Epress, 480 grain bullet @ 2125 fps with the modern (2002) .465 H&H Belted Magnum, the ballistics of which you are quoting. This cartridge is based on the .378/.460 Weatherby case, basically a belted .416 Rigby case.

As to the .240 Apex, the quoted ballistics were from a 28" barrel, as were most of the British ballistics. However, with modern powders the cartridge is capable of considerably better performance. It is an "unimproved" .240 Weatherby. The .240 Apex will chamber in the .240 Weatherby rifle, and will fireform to .240 Weatherby. Weatherby .240 cases can be easily reformed to .240 Apex. The .240 Weatherby is not a unique Weatherby developmen, but a "Weatherby-improved" .240 H&H Apex. Weatherby won't tell you that, but what a coincidence.
Cheers.

[Vikram]

The trapdoor action are a delight to watch, good solid lock. a friend has an w w greener 12 ga shotgun with a trapdoor action....

Pritu,

AFAIK, The Greener GP gun used a Martini action.



The Springfield Trapdoor action was a hinged breech action.



If there was a Trapdoor Greener which was not the GP,please do share more details with us.Thank you.

Best-
Vikram

[xl_target]

It entered history with B company,24th regiment of British army on jan22-23,1879.on that day,Lt John,with some 140men,defended Rork'sDrift in Natal,South Africa,from more than 4000 Zulu warriors.In all more more then 20,000 rounds were fired by the defenders.

The movie "Zulu" is a favorite of mine. It chronicles the actions of the defenders of Rorke's Drift using the Martini Henry rifle successfully against overwhelming numbers of Zulu Impi.

However, note must also be made of the Battle of Ishandlwana which took place just prior to the action at Rorke's Drift. Here similar complaints (to the problem that the 7th Cavalry had) were made about the MH rifle ripping the head off cartridges during extraction.

Also part of the problem that the 7th Cavalry had was that they were using the Cavalry Carbine version of the Trapdoor Springfield which did not have a ramrod to help remove stuck cartridges. Hence Tim's mention that one had to use a knife in the chamber to remove stuck cartridges.

[timmy]

Zulu is a wonderful movie, one of my most favorite. Probably because I recall watching it with my Dad when I was a kid. I still watch it! (Matter of fact, I think I will watch it tonight! Thanks for the suggestion!) I think that you are quite correct, XL, in comparing Ishandlwana with The Little Big Horn, as my belief is that both battles developed and were lost similarly: both white commanders formed their troops up into a fighting rectangle skirmish line, and both were defeated when the rectangle was broken. In the case of Ishandlwana, the skirmishers were too spread out and Zulu shock troops were able to penetrate the gaps and flank the lines, and at Little Big Horn, the Sioux/Cheyenne were able to break Custer's skirmish line by infiltrating through the "Deep Ravine" and flanking Custer's troops.

It should also be remembered that overheated weapons were not just a problem of the single shot black powder era. This was also a problem the British had with their Lee Metfords at the Battle of Omdurman in Sudan. A contingent of the force was needed to take overheated Lee Metfords back to the Nile to cool them in that battle.

One of the caliber which was introduced due to the ban on the .450 caliber in India and Sudan was the .425 magnum express by Westley Richards.It was probably the only rebated rimless cartridge ever designed in the British sporting ammunition history.

I've always found that to be a very interesting caliber, also. Unfortunately, here in the USA, bullets of the proper size are not readily available, and shooting a big boomer like that would be too expensive for me without reloading. I have considered cast bullets, however.

The snider was the introduced in 1867 and served the British army till 1871 ...

Am I the only one here who thinks that a double barreled .577 Snider handgun would make a dandy howdah pistol?

[Pritu79]

My bad timmy i had no intensions of comparing the actions ....... each action deserves it own repect. at that moment was in a different trip, was in aw of the designers who designed so many different actions...in that trip m89k, a charlin sliding breech and many more actions had crossed my mind. i ometted charlin as some one would have imedetly pointed out its a shotgun dude.... I have handeled a charlin and always felt what if the the darn breech block missed its stop would be an site... out of concern i advised the owner(cousin) it would be wise to use quality shells. avoid shaktiman as they have heavy loads. I may be wrong.
please bare with me as i have deveated from the topic

Vikram you are right its an martini action not a trapdoor......bit of confusion there.

[MoA]

The .45/70 or the .222 Rem are not obsolete by any standard.
Now the .222 Rem Mag is a different story. Wierdly accurate though, brass and ammo are still available. I use SAKO ammo and cases for reloading.
vedrigris is a common issue with any brass cased ammo in a leather bandolier, or even pouch.

the 98 action, difficult to beat as long as the magazine is loaded. Trying a direct breech load is a recipie for disaster. Then again like all clip loaders simple and effective.

[Pritu79]

A direct breech load in an 98k action .... can be a disaster. Though it has never happened with my 30-06, but i have seen a lot of broken extractors, since they are wide and hard they tend to snap while trying to close the bolt.