Buying Knives and other sharp n shiny objects in Rajasthan.

[Moin.]

And on this Katar

[winnie_the_pooh]

Just wondering,since the emphasis is so much on the koftgari work and the 'damascus' pattern,are the blades functional ? Can they stand use and do they hold an edge?

[Katana]

winnie,

The new stuff coming out of Rajasthan is mostly acid etched damascus. See pics of the knives that I picked up for reference. This is just patterning the exterior surface of the blade.

However, I know of just 2 guys in Udaipur who still make the old fashioned mechanical layered damascus. See the pic of the 'chhoora' in my post. If you will notice the pattern is visible in the incisions and engraved areas. This is possible only through this process. Since there are various 'layers' of steel that have been tempered together, the edge would be much better.

Meanwhile, I have also been trying to get the 'faulad' blade made and have had two blades made. The second blade turned out better. See pics of the 'leheriya kindi' for reference. I know its a long shot but there is no loss is at least trying! If I do manage it, then it is an edge for life.

Meanwhile, kuftgari is a wonderful art and does wonders to embellishing an edged weapon. However, according to my perception, it is secondary to the blade.

[winnie_the_pooh]

Katana,

Found this when I googled 'sikligar' http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaster/ The reason why I liked this fellows work is because the major effort seems to have gone into the making of the blade.Though,from what I was able to gather,he does overcharge.

While searching for reviews of current crop of Indian made swords,I found that the opinion of some is that the blades are secondary as they are made by 'koftgari' artists and so the emphasis is on their expertise.In other words,they are all show and no go.

The word 'damascus' is used quite often but can it, in all honesty, be applied to what is basically pattern welded steel?

Are you aware of this? http://www.damasteel.com/

Damascus steel was the best steel for making swords at one point of time.I am sure,modern steels can easily better it.

[Katana]

Winnie,

About the Sikh gentleman who's link you sent me, I'm not aware. But looking at some of the pesh kabz that he has put up reflect traces of manufacture in Rajasthan. I may be wrong but it seems that he may be sourcing them from there and buffing the blades to provide his clientele.

Meanwhile you are quite right when you say people fall for the kuftgari aspect of these pieces without understanding the blades. This art is quite captivating and takes away the attention that may be required from blade per se. The true lover of these articles would first study the blades and then everything else.

As far as 'damasteel' is concerned, in today's age just about anything is possible. It's nice to see that this Swedish company has at least posted information on it's manufacturing processes.

However, the Holy Grail of Indian edged weapons is 'faulad' steel.

[winnie_the_pooh]

Katana,

Re, the fellow from Amritsar,he makes the stuff himself at his factory in the city.

By 'faulad' I understand you are referring to wootz.From what I have read,it depended upon ore sourced from some part in the South.This ore was characterized by small impurities peculiar to it and once the source was depleted so too did the manufacture of this steel.If you are able to recreate wootz steel,you will be first one to do so in India after several hundred years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel

[Katana]

About the faulad, you got it right!

[winnie_the_pooh]

You might find this interesting unless you have already read it http://archaeology.about.com/gi/o.htm?z ... u/text.pdf

[Moin.]

Some very nice closeups of wootz and faulad talwars & khandas blades here...... Also very visible are the fold mark on the spines

http://www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/s287_full.html

[lawyerme]

Hello,

This is my first post guys... so a little about me. Am a practising criminal lawyer from Mumbai. Been a lurker in this group for a long time. Essentially a martial history buff with a love for all things sharp and shiny, especially partial to the ethnic edged arms. Am inspired by the edged arms gurus on board and taking my baby steps in the passion for all things sharp.

The two most unusual edged weapons from my region ( Maharashtra) which have always held my fascination are the "Dandpatta" and the "Waagh Nakh" ( Tiger Claws) . The Dand Patta with its transverse grip and gauntlet hilt is unique in many aspects. With its long flexible blade the stroke can be delivered in any direction. I have seen many mind blowing displays of patta live especially in erstwhile princely states of Kolhapur and Satara. In Maratha folklore it is said that a trained patta swordsman would hold at bay ten sword wielding attackers. The Waagh Nakh ( tiger claws) immortalised by Chattrapati Shivaji Maharaj in the slaying of Afzal Khan, the Bijapur Sardar, is also one of my favourites.

I have just started collecting some stuff lately. Have a couple of Nieto bowie knifes, a beautful Khukri, some Chinese folders, a Balisong, bow and arrows from Meghalaya and now a churi and katar from Jaipur. In fact, this brings me to my recent trip to Jaipur last week. I was very keen to follow up on the leads of Moin and had a very enlightening talk with Katanaji about what stuff to avoid buying.

So I land up at Arjun Singh Talwar Saaj who has a cubby hole dukaan just below Hawa Mahal. I get him talking and persuade him to show some good stuff. He shows me very poor quality tulwars with equally shoddy scabbards. For knives he has nothing at all to offer. Then I go to Nanhe Mian's Indian Arts and Crafts which BTW has shifted from M I Road to Ramganj Bazar. Yes, just as Moin said he has a great collection of swords and other edged weapons. But quite frankly the rates were exorbitant. Then came Kuber Arts ( all thanks to Moin's visiting cards ). Now he has a really swanky looking place with a lot of emphasis on handicrafts etc which are gorgeous, the focus is not really on edged arms. I wasnt a firang and the place was a little crowded when I went so I wasnt able to get around to seeing anything much there.

There is this place called P.M. Allabux and Sons on M I Road, which was suggested by Katanaji, and off I went to see Mr. Ehsan Elahi, a grandfather figure, sitting at the counter with a benign expression on his face. No swanky looking interiors but a old worldish charm.... however I wasnt prepared for the discreet verification of credentials by his son ( Raja) and the grand old man himself. I said I was from Mumbai, a knife and sword enthusiast and that they were recommended by someone whom I held in high regard. Slowly the ice thawed and they got to showing me some replica daggers, katars etc. I decided to open up more by evincing interest in a faux damascene choori blade with a blue scabbard and gold inlay work which was being quoted for 6K. This got Raja in a friendlier mode and then the goods came tumbling out. My goodness that was quite something for a first timer like me....I was quite literally bowled over with the things that I saw.

A straight sword "kindi", very very light, without the knuckle guard and a blue scabbard, a katar with gold inlay work, reinforced tip and beautiful central patterning on it, very light again.... some faux damascene khanjars ( which were not unique but more expensive in other stores).... a very light shamsheer "una" as it is locally called, with neat little blood grooves....a curved sword with blood grooves lined with charras (tiny ball bearings)which was supposed to be laced with a poison in the ancient times....a beautiful Irani stabbing dagger with camelbone handle almost like a peshqabz but without a prounouced curve.... a dagger blade ( without hilt) with a beautiful "leheriya" pattern which was sourced from Sirohi.... crystal and jade handles with a ram-design( presumably for khanjars)... a handle made of black obsidian stone .....a gunpowder flask of ivory with a mother of pearl tip....

Finally I settled for a faux damascene katar with enamelling and a choori with a blue scabbard for 15K ( out of my already shopping-depleted budget) . Posting pics soon

Cheers,

lawyerme

[lawyerme]

DSCN0540.JPG

[lawyerme]

board attachment quota reached !!

[mundaire]

board attachment quota reached !!

Try now...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[lawyerme]

More pic of choori

[Moin.]

More pic of choori

Vakilsaab, How wonderful. Heartiest Congratulations I was a dodo and did not carry a camera with me. Did you manage to take pics at all these places you've mentioned ? If so please do share.

Best Regards
Moin.