22 pellets in 5.5 and 5.6mm.. is there is a difference

[mercury]

master shots earlier (more than 20 years ago) used to sell tins of 500s in 5.6mm. they were very excellent pellets. the important point here is tha .22t air rifles made in the uk were always in 5.6mm compared to .22 rifles made elswere.

i have a tin of ely wasp in 5.6 mm and they do not fit my 350 magnum classic.....german make in 5.5mm. i had no such problems on an old bsa mercury...uk make in 5.6mm.

the master shot in 5.6 sat very well in the bsa..never tried them in a diana though.

i have another old box of shankar shot , box of 500 in 5.6 mm which fits much better than some marshal shot pellets in 5.5mm that at times i use in the 350 classic.

i think all these pellets , master shot...marshal shot.... shankar shot were from the same as they all have the same logo. i used to get my marshal shot pellets from kanpur i think.

wonder if indian pellets are still available in 5.6mm.

regards.

[SUFFIX]

Try Gsmith. They are even more. The head may be 5.5 but the skirt somewhere around 5.73 if I recollect correctly.

[brihacharan]

> Technically 0.22 = 5.58mm
> 1" = 25.4mm hence 0.22 would be > 25.4 x 0.22 % 1 = 5.58 which is 5.6 when rounded off.
> Between 5.5 & 5.6mm the difference is 0.1mm (one tenth of a millimetre) which is almost negligible.
> Regarding fitment of pellets in the breech - it depends on the shrinkage of the pellet when they are removed from the mould.
> This why some brands of pellets fit loosely, some snugly and some have to be pushed in.
> Also while machining the breech errors do happen, though this could be minor in thousadth of an inch, fitment problem occurs.
> Finally the Germans (Diana / Weihrauch / Walther etc) use the metric system while the Brits use the inch system, thus there exists minor size variations.
> Eg. Germans / French usethe Metric System is based on decimals (mm / cms / metre / kilometre / Kg / Grams etc) while the Brits use (inches / feet / yds / pounds etc.)
> Remember to use pellets that fit the breech sungly not loosely or tightly for better & smoother shooting.
Cheers
Briha

[mercury]

good tech. answers guys. will try gsmith.

thanks Briha, would that mean master shot followed the brit metric system earlier. what about the master shot marketed by aimc0, are they 5,5 or 5.6mm??

also when pellets are precission made the little difference you point out does make a difference. my ely wasp pellets are a case in point...i have randomaly tried the pellets and none of the heads fit the magnum. pellets siting well in the breach or not, i guess would have to do more with shrinkage in the skirt than the head.

given the precission tools used today chances of even a tenth of a millimetre dont happen in the manufacture of barrels especially in the breach.


will check out some gsmith pellets...problem; if as Sufifx says the skirt measures 5.73mm,would not the skirt get deformed when the barrel is locked?

regards

[brihacharan]

good tech. answers guys. will try gsmith.
thanks Briha, would that mean master shot followed the brit metric system earlier. what about the master shot marketed by aimc0, are they 5,5 or 5.6mm??
also when pellets are precission made the little difference you point out does make a difference. my ely wasp pellets are a case in point...i have randomaly tried the pellets and none of the heads fit the magnum. pellets siting well in the breach or not, i guess would have to do more with shrinkage in the skirt than the head.
given the precission tools used today chances of even a tenth of a millimetre dont happen in the manufacture of barrels especially in the breach.
will check out some gsmith pellets...problem; if as Sufifx says the skirt measures 5.73mm,would not the skirt get deformed when the barrel is locked?
regards

> The answer to this querry / problem has been discussed & dealt extensively by M/s. Pelletier & Gaylord (Air Gun Gurus) in various forums.
> Their advice is "Choose a pellet brand & weight that suits your gun best" & STICK TO IT!!!
> The reason being "NO TWO AIR RIFLES ARE SIMILAR" even if they are manufactured by the same manufaturer or even if they belong to the same batch of manufacture.
> This is an inexplicible fact - One has to live with it.
> Happy Shooting pal!
Cheers
Briha

[mercury]

point taken and agreed to! not because of Pelleter and Gaylord....dont get me wrong i have a lot of respect for those guys and still read their articles. me thinks our own experiances can be shared and debated.

[SUFFIX]

I have seen a barrel which was 5.3mm. the head of Gsmith .22 did did not enter. HWr10 bull barrel which was exactly 5.5 where the head of gsmith .22 entered perfectly but with a great difficulties I was able to make the skirt entered. With the help of barrel cleaner stick, I pushed the pellet to the other side and I saw the pellet was kind of elongated.
Ok the correct size gsmith: head : 5.4 Skirt 5.8 (heavy skirt)
JSB heavy:head 5.49 skirt : 5.67 (light skirt)
RSW hobby : head 5.5 skirt : 5.69 (Super light skirt) --> Very difficult to get even skirt.
Wasp: head: 5.5 Skirt: 5.52 (heavy skirt)

All are meant for take a shape inside the barrel.

[mercury]

5.3 mm barrel, would that make it a .20 . i guess i would need Brihas help with the math.
those measurements on pellet head and skirt size make for fantastic experimentation.
i would like to carry on this debate.

i did mention to Briha, that his point was taken and agreed to ,,,like to add not accepted though!! "....nothing personel just business..."

re

[brihacharan]

[quote="mercury"]5.3 mm barrel, would that make it a .20 . i guess i would need Brihas help with the math.
those measurements on pellet head and skirt size make for fantastic experimentation.
i would like to carry on this debate.
i did mention to Briha, that his point was taken and agreed to ,,,like to add not accepted though!! "....nothing personel just business..."

> Yes! It's business all the way...
> Nevetheless the fact remains that (as I said earlier) "NO TWO AIR RIFLES ARE SIMILAR" & so is for pellets!!! - as you've seen from Suffix's observation.
> Personally my Samurai 3G in 0.22 cal accepts Master Shot 14gr, Magna Shot 16gr & GSmith 19gr perfectly well - although the first two fit comfortably, while GSmith has to be gently coaxed.
> What I do for GSmith is - after placing the pellet in the breech I puy my thumb over the skirt flare & give it a gentle push/twist, clockwise & bingo in goes the pellet.
> In all three pellets my 'thumb-rule' check is listening to the report (sound) when the gun is fired - the ear pleasing & un-mistakable "THWAK" says it all!
> Translated it means that 'the efficiency of the compressed air' delivered to propel the pellet is 95% plus.
> The net result - better flight path of the pellet, synchronicity of barrel harmonics are perfect - good accuracy!!!
> Need I say more - It's business all the way
Cheers
Briha

[mercury]

if you put the samurai down and keep it only to business here goes...

i started out by stating that there iis a difference between 5.5mm and 5.6mm. now this is a fact irrespective of the minute difference. the ely wasp in 5.6mm will not fit a german 5.5mm barrel. BUT an ely wasp 5.5mm will fit a german 5.5mm barrel! the old bsa and webley breach port was larger and not rifled for a couple of mm to fit the 5.6mm pellets.

i do go with your arguement that no two air rifles/pellets are the same and the right pellet

NO TWO RIFLES IN 5.5MM MAY BE SIMILAR, BUT THAT DOES NOT APPLY WHEN COMPARING 5.5 TO 5.6MM. SAME
GOES FOR PELLETS TOO!

the pellet of say, master shot in 5.5mm may sit well barrel on my 350m but not someone elses 350m. but a 5.6mm pellet would fit niether barrels,

lets take Sufix air gun in 5.3mm ( is that a .20?), the only compatibility would be of some .20 brand pellet. he had diffuciluty with gsmith in 5.5mm ( with shrikages and no two pellets being the same) did not fit. further, and here i agree with you ; he may have had an issue with 5.3mm pellets because of the point you raised.

regards.

[Mark]

Here is my opinion of pellet diameter in regards to a specific air rifle-

I agree with the statement previously mentioned that it is an individual situation in regards to a particular air rifle. Let me explain my viewpoint:

If you are using a pellet slightly too large for the bore diameter of an air rifle, a significant amount of energy is spent "squeezing" that pellet down to the size it needs to be to travel through the barrel.

If a pellet is slightly too small for the bore, a measureable amount of air will bypass around the skirt of the pellet in its travel down the bore. This amount of bypass may vary, and result in differences in velocity between individual pellets which affects the accuracy some amount. Again, it can be small or it can be major depending on the intricacies of that particular rifle, the hardness of the pellet skirt, the color of the shooters pants, etc.

At any rate, it all boils down to the issue that there is no particular formula for accuracy or velocity, other than simple trial and error. It can be argued that all of these are measureable quantities but in my opinion the variables are so detailed that a computer capable of computing this has not been invented yet, so the best and easiest method is to simply purchase several tins of different pellets and see which ones shoot best for you.