Buying Knives and other sharp n shiny objects in Rajasthan.

[sa_ali]

Think up a design and will have it done.

Some work was already done on it by another Sr member Mack The Knife
http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=653

I love the design.

[Moin.]

Katanaji; Drooling already. Was thinking of a large 8-9 inch Katar from a nice thick Sankela Billet, handle in fine bidri work, scabbard in the same dark red or maroon like your lehariya with bidri work chape at the point and the throat of the scabbard......

Sa_ali; You have to see the quality of produce by these Sakligars, not sure you've seen the swords posted by Katanaji in this thread. What would be the point in getting a plane jane drop point when these Karigars are capable of so much more !!!!.

I very recently received a piece and you have to hold it to beleive the quality and the finesse in workmanship..

Best Regards
Moin.

[Moin.]

Katana:

I was working from the publications of Dr. J D Verhoeven, who, along with other papers, published "The Key Role of Impurities in Ancient Damascus Steel Blades".

Regarding my mention of Hyderabad, this one paragraph from the above-mentioned paper will partially explain my reference:

One of the big mysteries of wootz Damascus steel has been why the art of making these blades was lost. The vanadium levels provide the basis for a theory. Based on our studies, it is clear that to produce the damascene patterns of a museum-quality wootz Damascus blade the smith would have to fulfill at least three requirements. First, the wootz ingot would have to have come from an ore deposit that provided significant levels of certain trace elements, notably, Cr, Mo, Nb, Mn, or V. This idea is consistent with the theory of some authors30 who believe the blades with good patterns were only produced from wootz ingots made in southern India, apparently around Hyderabad. Second, the data of Table IV confirm previous knowledge that wootz Damascus blades with good patterns are characterized by a high phosphorus level. This means that the ingots of these blades would be severely hot short, which explains why Breant's9 19th century smiths in Paris could not forge wootz ingots. Therefore, as previously shown,15 successful forging would require the development of heat-treating techniques that decarburized the surface in order to produce a ductile surface rim adequate to contain the hot-short interior regions. Third, a smith who developed a heat-treatment technique that allowed the hot-short ingots to be forged might still not have learned how to produce the surface patterns, because they do not appear until the surface decarb region is ground off the blades; this grinding process is not a simple matter.

This paragraph is found about 5/6ths of the way down the web page.

This interesting article: Reproduction of Damascus steel ( Wootz ) has an interesting discussion on an academic research project which attempts to make a "damascus blade". I found this work quite interesting, along with the pictures associated with the article.

Timmy thanks, some very nice and intersting links in your thread......

Regards
Moin.

[sa_ali]

No doubt on the craftsmanship bro, i have being following most of the threads by katana, they excellent.

That was just for reference, starting point any thing he can come up with will be great, but my only suggestion is that it would be usable in day to day life, no something for collection only.

This way we will help the craftsman and help spread the word of indiansforguns. But any open to anything.

[Katana]

I returned after visiting Jodhpur and Udaipur a couple of days ago. The idea of going to Jodhpur started in my mind when I was told that there was a blade maker with considerable finesse in his work. So off I went with my sakligar in tow.

On reaching Jodhpur (actually in a village close by) and on seeing the man's work both of us concluded that it was basically acid etched sakela work. On pressing the man too much he finally relented and spoke the truth.

The reason for this is that he does not have any patrons who would pay him enough for actual mechanical sakela work, while he has managed to garner a contract from a handicrafts exporter in Delhi to make acid etched sakela pieces that he supplies to. Apparently the exporter then sells it to a firm in Spain where the same pieces are branded with the Spanish company's logo and 'Made in Spain' stamped on them.

Meanwhile, I noticed that he was working on some knives, just as some people had discussed! Folders in sakela.........

JDRknives 012 (Small).jpg

JDRknives 015 (Small).jpg

JDRknives 013 (Small).jpg

He has also been making replica daggers

JDRknives 006 (Small).jpg

JDRknives 009 (Small).jpg

JDRknives 011 (Small).jpg

He is willing to sell if orders are for lots of 25 numbers. Final pricing is not known as yet but I did buy 2 from him at Rs3800/- each for the folding knives. I also discussed the idea of personalising them with a logo or something alike. The man says he can cut a die and stamp it on the blade or hilt. he cannot do any inlay work. If this is required the knives can be sent to Udaipur where the same can be done easily, at least in silver if cost is to be kept down.

Apart from this I have not been able to locate anyone in Jodhpur who could even vaguely be called a skilled artisan in this field.

[Katana]

The knives I picked up. The handles are buffalo horn and they have some kind of a locking mechanism. Note the second photograph.

JDRknives2 001 (Small).jpg

JDRknives2 002 (Small).jpg

JDRknives2 003 (Small).jpg

JDRknives2 006 (Small).jpg

JDRknives2 007 (Small).jpg

I feel these could be used everyday as they are quite solidly built but am not sure what kind of edge they will retain.

[Katana]

A demonstration of the art of Kuftgari

I asked a known artisan if he could let me photograph his art step by step so as to enable all of us to understand the entire process.

The first process is to heat or anneal the piece to be decorated to acheive a shiny blue colour, to contrast it with the lines that will be etched to fill in the gold or silver thread. Thereafter the peice is 'cross hatched', ei. lines are affected in a criss cross pattern to 'hold' the lines to be etched.

Kuftgari 020 (Small).jpg

After this lines depicting the design or characters (alphabets) that may be required to be etched are drawn by hand. Mind you, there is zero reliance on a computer or even a paper on which designs have been finalised! Some designs require repetitive motifs and these are all done by hand.

Kuftgari 021 (Small).jpg

Thereafter, the gold or silver threads are affixed into the etched lines. Quantity varies according to the design, if the lines are to be broad, too many curvatures are required or the lines too deep. Either way its a matter of hand-eye co-ordination. This is the laborious part. Following the completion of this process the piece is heated once again to fuse the gold or silvers wires to the steel.

Kuftgari 024 (Small).jpg

Once the piece is cooled,it is filled in with the required thread and rubbed with a flat file if it is silver or an agate stone if the wires are in gold because rubbing steel over gold will remove a considerable quantity of it. Silver work will be finished with agate rubbing to remove any traces or left over lines from the cross hatching.

Kuftgari 027 (Small).jpg

Kuftgari 029 (Small).jpg

Kuftgari 034 (Small).jpg

This process may sound and look simple but if seen in it's totality, it is absolutely time consuming and a strain on the maker.

[kalashnikovcult]

katana ji the knives in the first picture (hitler, bayonet ) stand at $150 in the USA...you made an amazing discovery

here is a link to one of them http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/clt/2627875521.html

[Moin.]

I returned after visiting Jodhpur and Udaipur a couple of days ago. The idea of going to Jodhpur started in my mind when I was told that there was a blade maker with considerable finesse in his work. So off I went with my sakligar in tow.

On reaching Jodhpur (actually in a village close by) and on seeing the man's work both of us concluded that it was basically acid etched sakela work. On pressing the man too much he finally relented and spoke the truth.

The reason for this is that he does not have any patrons who would pay him enough for actual mechanical sakela work, while he has managed to garner a contract from a handicrafts exporter in Delhi to make acid etched sakela pieces that he supplies to. Apparently the exporter then sells it to a firm in Spain where the same pieces are branded with the Spanish company's logo and 'Made in Spain' stamped on them.

Meanwhile, I noticed that he was working on some knives, just as some people had discussed! Folders in sakela.........
He is willing to sell if orders are for lots of 25 numbers. Final pricing is not known as yet but I did buy 2 from him at Rs3800/- each for the folding knives. I also discussed the idea of personalising them with a logo or something alike. The man says he can cut a die and stamp it on the blade or hilt. he cannot do any inlay work. If this is required the knives can be sent to Udaipur where the same can be done easily, at least in silver if cost is to be kept down.

Apart from this I have not been able to locate anyone in Jodhpur who could even vaguely be called a skilled artisan in this field.

The thread just keeps getting better and better, Katanaji, hatts off to you.... Beautiful folders and such clean lines, specially the one with the Sakela bolsters on either side, it's got a beautiful pattern on the blade....




These will look so gorgeous in polished brass and buffalo horn !!!! And if we can get some Bidri Work done, this will be " sone pe suhaaga"

Here is what this gentleman Mr.Bantu Banu posted a while ago.....with brass bolsters



And the price is not to steep, if we can get this done in say a lrger 4 or 4.5 inch blade instead of 3. The leather pouches are lovely too, these too can be embossed with the logo. !!!!

ALL WE NEED NOW IS THE NUMBER OF MEMBERS INSTERESTED IN GETTING THIS DONE, AND OFCOURSE APPROVAL FROM THE IFG MANAGEMENT !!!!!!!!!

[Moin.]

katana ji the knives in the first picture (hitler, bayonet ) stand at $150 in the USA...you made an amazing discovery

here is a link to one of them http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/clt/2627875521.html

Kalashikovcult, 150 USD's not that steep a difference, Katanaji I'm sure these German Dagger Replicas are priced INR 5000-INR 6000 atleast !!!!! What was the selling price for these, look real sweet in the pictures.....

Regards
Moin.

[Moin.]

A demonstration of the art of Kuftgari

I asked a known artisan if he could let me photograph his art step by step so as to enable all of us to understand the entire process.

The first process is to heat or anneal the piece to be decorated to acheive a shiny blue colour, to contrast it with the lines that will be etched to fill in the gold or silver thread. Thereafter the peice is 'cross hatched', ei. lines are affected in a criss cross pattern to 'hold' the lines to be etched.

Kuftgari 020 (Small).jpg

After this lines depicting the design or characters (alphabets) that may be required to be etched are drawn by hand. Mind you, there is zero reliance on a computer or even a paper on which designs have been finalised! Some designs require repetitive motifs and these are all done by hand.

Kuftgari 021 (Small).jpg

Thereafter, the gold or silver threads are affixed into the etched lines. Quantity varies according to the design, if the lines are to be broad, too many curvatures are required or the lines too deep. Either way its a matter of hand-eye co-ordination. This is the laborious part. Following the completion of this process the piece is heated once again to fuse the gold or silvers wires to the steel.

Once the piece is cooled,it is filled in with the required thread and rubbed with a flat file if it is silver or an agate stone if the wires are in gold because rubbing steel over gold will remove a considerable quantity of it. Silver work will be finished with agate rubbing to remove any traces or left over lines from the cross hatching.

This process may sound and look simple but if seen in it's totality, it is absolutely time consuming and a strain on the maker.

I've read about this in books, but pictures speak a thousand words !!! My God what a time consuming and labourious process, without any stencils, computers or lasers !!!!!! Wonder what happens to the poor artisans eyesight !!!!!!!!!

Thank You so much for sharing these here ....

[Moin.]

But I still feel, it should be fairly large fixed blade (What Jonahpach did with the Mizo Bowie !) , something specific to the region like a Katar or a peshkabz where's there's opportunity to get beuatiful Bidri Work done on the hilt and scabbard....

OR BEST

The small Folder can be an appetiser and the large blade the main course !! Loll


Best Regards
Moin.

[Moin.]

Katanji is this Bidri work too ??






Check out this album

http://s597.photobucket.com/albums/tt54 ... ariartist/

[Katana]

Finding a friend from my childhood

While discussing the aspect of kuftgari with some people in Udaipur, I was told to refer to a particular gent who is about my age. His name sounded familiar and I inquired if it was the same person I knew almost 35 years ago when I was a child. His father was a master craftsman and this gent has taken over his father's work after he passed away.

After seeing his work, I truly believe he is the best kuftgari artist I have come across as yet, maybe in India. Interestingly he works with gold only. No silver.

See for yourselves:

Kuftgari 001 (Small).jpg

Kuftgari 003 (Small).jpg

Kuftgari 004 (Small).jpg

Kuftgari 005 (Small).jpg

Kuftgari 006 (Small).jpg

Kuftgari 007 (Small).jpg

[Katana]

Part II

Kuftgari 009 (Small).jpg

Kuftgari 014 (Small).jpg

Kuftgari 012 (Small).jpg

Now see the intricacy of his work and attention to minute details.

About the knife picture posted by Bantu Bana, it is a mechanical sakela with white metal added to show those white flowing lines. Something like this:

SAKELAmfr 004 (Small).jpg

SAKELAmfr 005 (Small).jpg