Help sought in "deadly Weapons" use training

[rajveer]

I dont think the problem is only about salary.
I am no spokes person for mumbai police , but the ground reality is atleast in mumbai all police men 100% of them are honest. What makes them go wrong is the system. And when they go wrong it is hardly ever their personal greed and need ( can we keep the black sheep out of the herd).
As far as mumbai police aquiring one 50 cal snipper goes it is a very good initiative. About the trainning and other facility the home department state and MOH affairs at centre should provide the facility.
Before laghing at the mumbai police, try to understand the place where they maintain their police station, beat, even commissiner and DG office in mumbai is maintained taken care of PWD. So they have no funds of their own. As far as this report it is asking question about availabilty of trainning facility not about aquiring 50 cal snipper rifle.
Regards

[nagarifle]

I am no spokes person for mumbai police , but the ground reality is atleast in mumbai all police men 100% of them are honest.

is that a fact? or wishful thinking?

What makes them go wrong is the system. And when they go wrong it is hardly ever their personal greed and need ( can we keep the black sheep out of the herd).

so you are saying that:
1/ mumbai police are 100% honest.
2/and if they go corrupt its not them but the system.

please do not play the blame game, everyone is responsible for their actions. otherwise the police should not arrest people as the system and society are to blame for their misdeeds which causes them to commit acts of crime.

As far as mumbai police aquiring one 50 cal snipper goes it is a very good initiative. About the trainning and other facility the home department state and MOH affairs at centre should provide the facility.

no police with any brains will have a .50 cal, as it is overkill, yes one may kill a terrorism but the bullet will keep on going and will hit an Innocent person. thus if one studies other country police force one would see that they use .308 cal rifle and most of the shooting takes place under 500m. where in a city will you find a 1km long clear shot to take form? as city are built up areas and long shots can not be taken.

as for the training ground? this should have been thought out before buying useless guns. do not blame others for the lack of policy thinking. the keeper of the guns should be able to arrange for the right training or should get a smaller toy to play with.

Before laghing at the mumbai police, try to understand the place where they maintain their police station, beat, even commissiner and DG office in mumbai is maintained taken care of PWD. So they have no funds of their own.

thats why they are corrupt? lets blame others for the cause of corruptions and not one self.

let me see "it was not me, who killed a innocent man but the others made me do it"

As far as this report it is asking question about availabilty of trainning facility not about aquiring 50 cal snipper rifle. Regards

http://liveimage.beyond360imaging.net/v ... A1-416-SYS

Cost $ 8000+ INR 3,91,680+ ALMOST 4LACS

[Hammerhead]

What ........ ? 6.8 Km ... ?

My be XL can help out but can you teach new tricks to old dogs - Haji

[TwoRivers]

"Range" apparently means different things to different people. "Maximum" range for the .50 caliber BMG round is easily 6,800 meters. And at that range it will probably still put a dent in your noggin. "Effective" range depends on your specification, and target.

[dr.jayakumar]

Freinds most of us here like me did not have anyone to teach us about shooting and guns.we learnt ourselves.
i think most ifg'ans can handle a gun better than these lazies.it is a shame to give a press report like this.
god bless our country.

[rajveer]

Thank u Naga Sir atleast u agreed to one of my point
As far as honesty and integrity of mumbai Police goes, it is my personal experience and thoughts. I already said there can be black sheep.
Even I am in a process of applying for an additional license and started preparing for Appeal and moving to High Court if rejected. The problem here is much bigger and subject of policing in India very vast.
As u rightly said for urban combat situation there has to be a different type of snipper, who knows they would have aquired them in good numbers and trainning with them.
The report in DNA for which we r putting our view here is " just one 50 cal snipper" and for that there is no place or trainner to practise.
My knowlegde about this rifle is limited, but as seen on many channels and few web sights, this rifle is not only antipersonal but can be used as antivehicle and lots of other use.
One more thing the mumbai police capacity is approx. 40000 , just one 50 cal snipper for the force of 40000 should not hurt.
Lastly one of our senior member's signature says ,if I can get it right " It is always better to have a gun and not need it, than not having a gun and need it."
Regards.

[xl_target]

My knowlegde about this rifle is limited, but as seen on many channels and few web sights, this rifle is not only antipersonal but can be used as antivehicle and lots of other use.
One more thing the mumbai police capacity is approx. 40000 , just one 50 cal snipper for the force of 40000 should not hurt.

rajveer sir,
I think the point that several people have brought up here is the .50 cal Barrett is severe overkill in an urban environment. While there is no question as to the systems ability to be used a sniper rifle, it is not generally used in urban environments. The .50 BMG round is flat shooting and has great penetrating abilities. As such there can be a significant danger to innocent civilians, even if the target is hit squarely.
Most Police forces use .30 caliber rifles for the sniping role. In fact, most military snipers confine themselves to a .30 caliber weapon when deployed in urban environments. The .50 caliber round is a very poor choice for use in urban environments, especially in Indian cities where the population density is so high. The chance of "collateral damage", with every shot, is way too high for it to be used in the (Urban) Police sniping role. There are many other viable weapons system out there that are more suitable for this particular role.

[rajveer]

Xl Sir my regards to you,
I am just rajveer not yet qualified to be Sir. If u keep in that way I'll be greatfull.
The point of discussion here is once again I repeat " Just one .50 Cal snipper Rifle aquired by Mumbai police" the report of DNA newspaper is not asking why mumbai police have this rifle , it says they dont have place and trainner to use it.
If mumbai police stegnth for men is approx. 40000 and we assume half them is armed. In 20000 small arms if there is just one .50 Cal snipper, what is wrong in that.
During 26/11 in mumbai the terrorists came from the sea , is't it the duty of Indian Navy and Cost Guards to check for the same.
For all reasons and seasons lets blame the mumbai police, is what the easy option.
Coming back to snipper for urban conflict I said it earier" Who knows they would have aquired right cal. in good numbers and trainning with them"
If Someone knowing there is now an elite force in mumbai police force called " force one" all the recruits are hand picked , young , fit , and they train evey day.
Why we are so much bothered about just one .50 Cal snipper with mumbai police, aleast the one who ordered it didnt ordered a TRUCK FULL OF .303 for his force.
As far as colletral damage and inocents killed if they use this rifle it is to be seen , as the report says it is still in police armory once again " just a single piece"
NO THE BEAT CONSTABLES ARE NOT ARMED WITH .50 CAL SNIPPERS. the poor chaps are still with lathi.
Regards.

[rajveer]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv7EYOlBWaI
Pls watch this video ,
when they use outdated weapon everyone make a fun of them, when they try to get some good weapon, once again I must say just one .50 Cal snipper in entire MAHARASTRA STATE. , even it can be one in entire India.
even the the gun loving community like us r mocking them.
Friends I request u all to kindly read between the lines, eventhough the report of DNA is absolutly clear THEY DONT HAVE PLACE AND TRAINNER to use this weapon.
Regards.

[Priyan]

Pls watch this video ,
when they use outdated weapon everyone make a fun of them, when they try to get some good weapon, once again I must say just one .50 Cal snipper in entire MAHARASTRA STATE. , even it can be one in entire India.
even the the gun loving community like us r mocking them.
Friends I request u all to kindly read between the lines, eventhough the report of DNA is absolutly clear THEY DONT HAVE PLACE AND TRAINNER to use this weapon.
Regards.

I watched the video but I have a question, How people records video with calculators? Speaking of the rust on the rifle, it was not the sign of old weapon but poor maintenance by the police (Even the Barrett M82A1 would rust in a month or two if stored in poor condition) BTW if that cop had Barrett M82A1 at the shooting, he might get shot by the terrorists considering the length and weight of the weapon. Those rifles are not designed to be used in close combat.

even it can be one in entire India.

Maybe, but some of our handguns cost more than that, thanks to ban on firearm importation.

[rajveer]

Dear Pyriyan
the video is recorded by cctv installed at VT Station at Mumbai, and for ur kind informatuion many footage of " ajmal kasab and his partner' shooting innocent people which are classified and being used as evidence are from the same place".
for calculater to record video only you have to be the best.
No one here is saying it is a every day carry weapon for mumbai police, I SAY IT AGAIN THERE IS JUST ONE .50 CAL SNIPPER RIFLE with mumbai police and once again THE NEWS REPORT SAYS THEY DONT HAVE PLACE AND TRAINNER TO USE IT.
As far as imported weapon price for ur use , you must be knowing the thread in this forum to use.
I request u kindly read this thread in totality , understand the subject and reply .
For ur information if imported weapons are costly in India, it has nothing to do with this subject.
Regards.

[Priyan]

Mr. Rajveer,
I have completely read the thread before replying. FYI I was talking about the video that was uploaded to youtube, not the CCTV one.
Allright, I read in this thread that someone brought a Berrett M82A1 from USA for Maharashtra Police and now they don't have a trainer and a place to shoot it. I have seen military ranges upto 500 yards in my state and since most shooting takes place in less than 500 yards, they could start on that range and then gradually practice at longer range. And for trainer, they could get someone who handles one of those 100 Vidhwansak rifles. Speaking of my comment about firearm prices in India, it was just a satire about how firearms cost way more for normal public while police buys weapons at very low price and never uses them.

[rajveer]

Dear Priyan kindly see the video few more times,
It is not part of some action movie so that full HD video will be available, but real life action. Pls try to understand the police cosntable was unarmed the terroriest at VT station were armed to the tooth,
as seen in the video every one is running for their life, but this constable inspite of volly of bullets coming to his side , ran to the nearest available fire arm and shot at the terroriest . infact distracted them and after his shot they fleed from the VT station.
I hope u must appriciate the courage this police man rather than bothering ur self about poor video quality.
Regards.

[rajveer]

Dear priyan ,
I think u r still not getting the point u still think as u wrote,
" Someone brought a Berrett M82A1 from USA for Maharashtra Police and now they don't have a trainer and a place to shoot it"
So the queastion here is who must have 'BROUGHT" a .50 Cal snipper from USA for " Maharashtra Police" and what kind of gift it will be.
and the poor fellows dont have place to shoot it.
Best wishes to u priyan, u r amazing.
Regards.

[Priyan]

Dear Priyan kindly see the video few more times,
It is not part of some action movie so that full HD video will be available, but real life action.

Seeing that video was from a TV channel HD might be available, also the sound of gunfire in that video looks post- production to me.
BTW If I remember correctly the thread was about .50 cal Berrett snipper rifle, not a brave constable.
Actually my point was .50BMG is useless in urban environment, specially in overcrowded cities of India. The cop was brave and he could have shot a terrorist if he had an assault rifle not a .50BMG rifle. The point of my post was, do it but don't overdo it. lol we Indians might have a tendency to overdo everything, look at our population

P.S: Seeing this is going kinda personal, I'd refrain from posting in this thread from now on unless absolutely necessary.