WANT A RALLY FOR GUN RIGHTS!

[dhananjay]

count me in, and plan it in a proper manner. In my opinion it will be best to organize rally on Sunday as most of us will be able to attend it on that day. President of NAGRI should be roped in, this will give the program a lot of ideas. It will be great if we can bring some politicians or celebrities who support RKBA.

[Virendra S Rathore]

Did you have a word with office bearers of NAGRI to discuss what is their action plan to go ahead for RKBA?

It is my personal opinion that instead of doing rallies and making noise, we need to first have a solid ground to justify RKBA. Therefore it is better to approach Supreme Court first. Once Supreme Court utters that RKBA is guaranteed under Articles 19 and 21, the movement will have a solid reason and force to move ahead. In my opinion(subject to correction) the entire Arms Act 1959, Arms Rules 1962, notifications etc. needs to be put under the test of doctrine of strict scrutiny by court. I have tried to explain concept of strict scrutiny at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 1&start=15

Ok I can't disagree on that as well
Lawyers of IFG please rise to the occasion. If its ok, rest guys like us can help in general research and info gathering for the case as and when required right?

Regards,
Virendra

[goodboy_mentor]

I agree with you about going to the Supreme Court, but not as the first step.

So long the things are done wisely that is fine. But for some reason, I do not know why I feel that we need to approach the Supreme Court with a watertight case first.

if possible interview a couple of high court judges and supreme court judges to see what their point of view is

As I said earlier there is a pathetic lack of awareness among the legal fraternity about the fact that RKBA is guaranteed under Articles 19 and 21 of Constitution. Till now I have found only one lawyer who was aware that RKBA is a fundamental right under Articles 19 and 21. When told that RKBA is a fundamental right under Articles 19 and 21, it was a matter of surprise or rather shock to most of the lawyers. I do not think experience will be much different when interviewing judges of High Courts or Supreme Court. Unless we apprise them of the facts, most probably it will be like asking five blind men to describe the appearance of an elephant.

and then accordingly approach the supreme court..

Do we need to approach on basis of response of judges in interview or we need to approach Supreme Court on basis of the fact that RKBA is guaranteed under Article 19 and 21? I would rather prefer to approach Supreme Court on basis of the fact that RKBA is guaranteed under Article 19 and 21.

The point is how many people in India know about us.. I am guessing not many, we need to also figure out how much support we can get…

Nothing do be disheartened, I feel NAGRI has got a good response out of around 5000 people. Does anyone have idea how much response India Against Corruption got in the beginning out of 50,000 people? Only thirteen people. I quote the relevant part of interview published at http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article2412658.ece below:

How did you communicate your message to such a large number of people?

Technology played a key role in this. When in January this year, India Against Corruption (IAC) member Shivendra suggested to us that we use Facebook to publicise our rallies, I dismissed it saying Facebook has a limited, urban following. But Shivendra went ahead. We had planned a single rally on January 30 at the Ramlila Maidan. But because we connected on Facebook, we were able to conduct simultaneous rallies in 64 cities. SMS texting also played a critical role. Our SMS communication was designed very intelligently. A company in Mumbai suggested we ask for missed calls as a mark of solidarity. Missed calls cost nothing. In March, we sent out two crore SMS messages and got 50,000 missed calls. Then we targeted the 50,000 callers, asking if they would like to enrol as volunteers for IAC. Initially 13 people responded. We sent two more rounds of messages to the 50,000 callers. And in just one week, the number of volunteers swelled to 800.

[Virendra S Rathore]

As I said earlier there is a pathetic lack of awareness among the legal fraternity about the fact that RKBA is guaranteed under Articles 19 and 21 of Constitution. Till now I have found only one lawyer who was aware that RKBA is a fundamental right under Articles 19 and 21. When told that RKBA is a fundamental right under Articles 19 and 21, it was a matter of surprise or rather shock to most of the lawyers. I do not think experience will be much different when interviewing judges of High Courts or Supreme Court. Unless we apprise them of the facts, most probably it will be like asking five blind men to describe the appearance of an elephant.

So how is the experience with Supreme court going to be different than the elephant description of seemingly blind high court and colleagues in legal fraternity?
Just curious.

Regards,
Virendra

[denong]

hi goodboy-m

thanks for the heads-up, it never occured to me Art 19 and 21, after reading the various post and then reading a similar documentation elsewhere http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/R ... -36011.asp i am beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel. now, is there any hope to argue legally to revoke the the ban on imports ( strictly within the provision of the arms act, minus the the ban on imports).

regards

[spin_drift]

and then accordingly approach the supreme court..

Do we need to approach on basis of response of judges in interview or we need to approach Supreme Court on basis of the fact that RKBA is guaranteed under Article 19 and 21? I would rather prefer to approach Supreme Court on basis of the fact that RKBA is guaranteed under Article 19 and 21.

You misunderstood me and sorry for not being clear, what I meant by that was to get a physiological profile i.e. find out what their belief system is and their thought process is and accordingly build your arguments in conjunction with the finer points of the relevant law.. as in my opinion that will be much more affective

[goodboy_mentor]

So how is the experience with Supreme court going to be different than the elephant description of seemingly blind high court and colleagues in legal fraternity?

Very good question, make the lawyers read something like in the following link and ask them, where is the mistake in the interpretation? http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/R ... -36011.asp Once we know what the mistakes are or the mistakes as per their perception are, the matter can be further improved and refined. The aim should be to:

1) present a watertight case with no room to wriggle out and create excuses.

2) demolish the scope to cite any existing erroneous High Court judgments as precedents. It can be done by finding out which facts were ignored in those High Court judgments. If the facts are different in the present case, one cannot show a precedent of another judgment, since there is no precedent to the facts of case.

i am beginning to see light at the end of the tunnel. now, is there any hope to argue legally to revoke the the ban on imports ( strictly within the provision of the arms act, minus the the ban on imports).

First of all it needs to be understood that there is no "ban" on import of firearms. The Section 5 of the The Foreign Trade (Development and Regulation) Act, 1992 empowers the Central Government to announce the Foreign Trade Policy. The firearms have been put in restricted list of EXIM Policy.

The matter in the writ petition has to be written in a very clever and comprehensive way. Besides taking care of the above mentioned points 1) and 2) also establish that your various fundamental rights(including RKBA) are getting violated because of this import restriction. Why because price of IOF products are beyond your reach but same type of firearms are available in international market at fraction of the cost. When you already have an arms license, how does it matter to the State if you buy from IOF or international market? This import restriction is creating class of haves and have nots based on their economic status. Only those who are above a certain economic level are able to afford firearms whereas others are not able to.

The government has no justification for placing firearms under restricted list of EXIM Policy as arms licenses are issued only to law abiding citizens under Arms Act 1959. There is no need to put firearms under restricted list of EXIM Policy as they are already well regulated under a specific act for firearms, i.e. Arms Act 1959. Let the doctrine of strict scrutiny be applied to the restriction placed on import of firearms under The Foreign Trade (Development and Regulation) Act, 1992. Also in view of Supreme Court judgment in Suresh Nanada Vs C.B.I 2008 AIR 1414, in my opinion Foreign Trade (Development and Regulation) Act, 1992(Exim Policy) should yield to specific act of Parliament i.e. Arms Act 1959. Arms Act 1959 is a specific act to regulate the specific Fundamental Right i.e. the Right to Keep and Bear Arms guaranteed under Articles 19 and 21 of Constitution.

Since Arms Act 1959 is a specific act to regulate the specific Fundamental Right i.e. the Right to Keep and Bear Arms guaranteed under Articles 19 and 21 of Constitution., the legislature had wisely legislated Section 10, Sub Section 1, Clause a) of Arms Act 1959, indicating that if your arms license allows you to own a particular firearm, you have the right to import a firearm of that particular category without a license for importing it. Detailed discussion about Section 10, Sub Section 1, Clause a) of Arms Act 1959 can be read at http://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic ... 79&start=0

Besides these points various other legal points from jurisprudence, natural justice, doctrine of strict scrutiny, doctrine of overriding affect(it can be read at http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/article ... e-3720.asp) etc. etc. can be thought of to attack the restriction placed on import of firearms under The Foreign Trade (Development and Regulation) Act, 1992 to create a watertight case.

You misunderstood me and sorry for not being clear, what I meant by that was to get a physiological profile i.e. find out what their belief system is and their thought process is and accordingly build your arguments in conjunction with the finer points of the relevant law.. as in my opinion that will be much more affective

You are very much correct, I agree. Sorry for not been able to understand your point.

[renjith747]

No updates on this thread since last September ???...
what is the plan of IFGans for fighting for their fundamental right to bear arms and make import from foreign countries??.Any possibility for a writ in court as good boy_mentor specified above???.Hey guys we should join together and give a writ for the same.What is the opinion of the members???

[ayushlapd]

m in!!!!!!!!!!

[adarora]

i just read the post above.
i like airguns but for me shooting range is very expensive( back where i live)
I AM IN.....

[Bhargav]

I would say the first thing to do is to increase the memberships in NAGRI and make NAGRI a household name.

some of the ideas to do it would be:
- internet, facebook, twitter offcourse.

-Volunteers in cities can setup a date at all shooting facilities and distribute handouts to shooters at the ranges. Then on that particular date, volunteers setup a booth where shooters can fill the application forms. Volunteers collect these forms from them and THEY mail it to NAGRI office in bulk. This way we can ensure that the application once filled, will reach the NAGRI office and will not die out due to laziness of the person posting it.

- Post monthly newsletters on the nagri website which describes the activities and what happened in the previous month.

I am not in India right now so, unfortunately, I can only give ideas .