Prashant,
Interesting reading.Look forward to the rest of the story.Regarding Singh taking a shotgun in thick cover,I do believe some people advice against it.However a relative still has the trophy of a tiger he shot with a shotgun.A 30-06 is not likely to stop a charge any ways.
Maneater of Devprayag / Chandmari.
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PLEASE NOTE: There is currently a complete ban on Hunting/ Shikar in India. IFG DOES NOT ALLOW any posts of an illegal nature, and anyone making such posts will face immediate disciplinary measures.
PLEASE NOTE: There is currently a complete ban on Hunting/ Shikar in India. IFG DOES NOT ALLOW any posts of an illegal nature, and anyone making such posts will face immediate disciplinary measures.
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Bespoke
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Re: Maneater of Devprayag
Good read.
I think most of PH's and experienced hunters use shotgun loaded with SG's for following leopard in thick cover or in the night Mr Singh is no different. Remember leopard is not a thick skinned game.
I think most of PH's and experienced hunters use shotgun loaded with SG's for following leopard in thick cover or in the night Mr Singh is no different. Remember leopard is not a thick skinned game.
“Bravery is believing in yourself, and that thing nobody can teach you.”
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shooter
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Re: Maneater of Devprayag
Regarding Singh taking a shotgun in thick cover,I do believe some people advice against it
PH's and experienced hunters use shotgun loaded with SG's for following leopard in thick cover
LG or 00buck for tracking leopard in bush (or similar when one can expect attack at close range) is a decent choice.
Remember at close quarters, a shotgun is a deadly weapon and also a very fast handling weapon.
I have seen many leopards killed by eley LG.
I agree. Tiger is also a soft skinned game. Can be killed by a shotgun but hats off to the guy who did that. Either exceptionally brave or didnt realise the full potential of danger. It would also be interesting to know how long it took the tiger to die.However a relative still has the trophy of a tiger he shot with a shotgun
The othe day Vikram showed us an article about documented evidence of a man shooting many elephants with a rimfire .22short (NOT LR). all 1 shot kills. However he was a poor guy , an ivory poacher. The PH who heard him and tried out himself (with success) had another PH as a back up with an elephant calibre.
-- 04 Aug 2011, 10:35 --
Regarding Singh taking a shotgun in thick cover,I do believe some people advice against it
PH's and experienced hunters use shotgun loaded with SG's for following leopard in thick cover
LG or 00buck for tracking leopard in bush (or similar when one can expect attack at close range) is a decent choice.
Remember at close quarters, a shotgun is a deadly weapon and also a very fast handling weapon.
I have seen many leopards killed by eley LG.
I agree. Tiger is also a soft skinned game. Can be killed by a shotgun but hats off to the guy who did that. Either exceptionally brave or didnt realise the full potential of danger. It would also be interesting to know how long it took the tiger to die.However a relative still has the trophy of a tiger he shot with a shotgun
The othe day Vikram showed us an article about documented evidence of a man shooting many elephants with a rimfire .22short (NOT LR). all 1 shot kills. However he was a poor guy , an ivory poacher. The PH who heard him and tried out himself (with success) had another PH as a back up with an elephant calibre.
You want more gun control? Use both hands!
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.
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prashantsingh
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Re: Maneater of Devprayag
Apart from what Shooter has written there is another aspect to it.
Singh has never hunted tigers himself though his father was a big game hunter. His experience is with maneating leopards only.
He feels that (unless cornered ) a leopards first choice is to flee rather than fight (charge).
A double barrel shot gun would not only cause much damage at close range, it would also give him an advantage to fire that second shot without reloading.
and then he always has his old "takiyaqualam" to fall back on. "Agar marna hi hai to saat taalon me band ho kar bhi mar jaoge"
Singh has never hunted tigers himself though his father was a big game hunter. His experience is with maneating leopards only.
He feels that (unless cornered ) a leopards first choice is to flee rather than fight (charge).
A double barrel shot gun would not only cause much damage at close range, it would also give him an advantage to fire that second shot without reloading.
and then he always has his old "takiyaqualam" to fall back on. "Agar marna hi hai to saat taalon me band ho kar bhi mar jaoge"
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shooter
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Re: Maneater of Devprayag
He feels that (unless cornered ) a leopards first choice is to flee rather than fight (charge).
leopard will not often 'charge'.
You want more gun control? Use both hands!
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.
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xl_target
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Re: Maneater of Devprayag
However, you have to keep in mind that a Leopard is a very unpredictable and strange animal. Among other antics, Peter Hathaway Capstick has documented how a wounded Leopard circled back over its own trail and waited in a tree (over the trail) so he could bushwhack the hunter following that trail. A Leopard is more apt to stalk you and jump on you from behind than attack you directly from the front.shooter wrote:He feels that (unless cornered ) a leopards first choice is to flee rather than fight (charge).
leopard will not often 'charge'.
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never – in nothing, great or small, large or petty – never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” — Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941
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winnie_the_pooh
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Re: Maneater of Devprayag
They probably do not read all the discussion on the net on how they are supposed to behavexl_target wrote:A Leopard is more apt to stalk you and jump on you from behind than attack you directly from the front.
-- Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:20 pm --
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timmy
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Re: Maneater of Devprayag
Prashant, your story has captivated most everyone on IFG! And that is understandable, for your effective writing clearly expresses the many emotions of this situation: the horrible death of the poor girl, the plight of the leopard and all wildlife, trapped in an ever-shrinking environment, the anger of the villagers that is a reasonable reaction to our ideas of conservation, the fear of going out after a known killer in the dark -- these and many more feelings are put in play by your story. I'm always looking for the next installment, myself!
I am always reminded of a story I read in my 8th grade literature, back when the world didn't seem to be filled with so many kooks. It was a short essay on the "Big 5" of African game." (Yes, you read that right: it was in my school book!) From the most dangerous, the author rated them this way:
1. Leopard
2. Lion
3. Cape Buffalo
4. Elephant
5. Rhinoceros
The author's reasoning fitted in with later things I have read, including what xl notes (Capstick & Corbett) and ranked the leopard as most dangerous, not because he was the biggest or strongest, but essentially because he was the smartest, most cunning, and most unpredictable.
Of course, this is India, but Indian leopards are plenty smart, as well, and perhaps even smarter, as they have more opportunity for being close to humans than in Africa.
In my mind, knowing (or, should I say, believing) that the leopard is at the top of the heap, all the emotions of Prashant's story are heightened to the maximum degree.
About the .22, many slaughterhouses in the USA use a .22 to kill the animals in an assembly line process. (Often, another choice is a sledge hammer.) The animal is in a narrow chute and is dispatched with a shot in the ear.
I knew an old fellow in Montana who was a poacher. Ordinarily, I would have reported any poacher, but I knew this fellow. He picked up odd jobs here and there to make a living and lived on the economic edge of society. He was a good person. He only took deer to have enough to eat -- he wasn't selling it or killing for sport. He would drive into a ranch where the owner knew him and what he was up to -- this man had some favorite spots. He'd park his car in the middle of a park (clear area) and wait. Eventually, the deer (mule deer are pretty stupid, and they also have a curious streak) would wander around the car and when they got close enough, this man would put a .22 in their ear, as well.
A big advantage to using a .22 for a poacher is that they are quiet and don't draw a lot of attention, like a high powered rifle shot would. Where gunfire is much less common than in the American West, I could see that this would be a big advantage for a .22.
About guns, I think that the argument for a shotgun -- or really, any double -- that Prashant mentions is very valid: a quick second shot, most likely in circumstances that won't permit much more than 2 shots anyway. Another issue is that a double gun is just that: two guns. There is no feeding issue, and the firing mechanisms are both instantly available. The redundant nature of double locks means that, in the event of a misfire, the other shot is available more quickly than in any other action, and there are two actions, as well.
The leopard is thin skinned and at close range, a blast of buck is very likely the most deadly load to send a leopard's way, especially in the dark or in a snap shot situation.
Still, I must say, the leopard has a lot more advantage in this sort of situation than in most any other. It's possibly dark, visibility is poor, the knowledge of the ground and ability to traverse it quickly belong to the leopard -- and this is not some thought up thrill seeker's game, like bungee jumping or sky diving. This is the story as old as man, and who is going to be victorious is not at all dependent on any human rules.
I am always reminded of a story I read in my 8th grade literature, back when the world didn't seem to be filled with so many kooks. It was a short essay on the "Big 5" of African game." (Yes, you read that right: it was in my school book!) From the most dangerous, the author rated them this way:
1. Leopard
2. Lion
3. Cape Buffalo
4. Elephant
5. Rhinoceros
The author's reasoning fitted in with later things I have read, including what xl notes (Capstick & Corbett) and ranked the leopard as most dangerous, not because he was the biggest or strongest, but essentially because he was the smartest, most cunning, and most unpredictable.
Of course, this is India, but Indian leopards are plenty smart, as well, and perhaps even smarter, as they have more opportunity for being close to humans than in Africa.
In my mind, knowing (or, should I say, believing) that the leopard is at the top of the heap, all the emotions of Prashant's story are heightened to the maximum degree.
About the .22, many slaughterhouses in the USA use a .22 to kill the animals in an assembly line process. (Often, another choice is a sledge hammer.) The animal is in a narrow chute and is dispatched with a shot in the ear.
I knew an old fellow in Montana who was a poacher. Ordinarily, I would have reported any poacher, but I knew this fellow. He picked up odd jobs here and there to make a living and lived on the economic edge of society. He was a good person. He only took deer to have enough to eat -- he wasn't selling it or killing for sport. He would drive into a ranch where the owner knew him and what he was up to -- this man had some favorite spots. He'd park his car in the middle of a park (clear area) and wait. Eventually, the deer (mule deer are pretty stupid, and they also have a curious streak) would wander around the car and when they got close enough, this man would put a .22 in their ear, as well.
A big advantage to using a .22 for a poacher is that they are quiet and don't draw a lot of attention, like a high powered rifle shot would. Where gunfire is much less common than in the American West, I could see that this would be a big advantage for a .22.
About guns, I think that the argument for a shotgun -- or really, any double -- that Prashant mentions is very valid: a quick second shot, most likely in circumstances that won't permit much more than 2 shots anyway. Another issue is that a double gun is just that: two guns. There is no feeding issue, and the firing mechanisms are both instantly available. The redundant nature of double locks means that, in the event of a misfire, the other shot is available more quickly than in any other action, and there are two actions, as well.
The leopard is thin skinned and at close range, a blast of buck is very likely the most deadly load to send a leopard's way, especially in the dark or in a snap shot situation.
Still, I must say, the leopard has a lot more advantage in this sort of situation than in most any other. It's possibly dark, visibility is poor, the knowledge of the ground and ability to traverse it quickly belong to the leopard -- and this is not some thought up thrill seeker's game, like bungee jumping or sky diving. This is the story as old as man, and who is going to be victorious is not at all dependent on any human rules.
“Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim.”
saying in the British Royal Navy
saying in the British Royal Navy
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shooter
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Re: Maneater of Devprayag
Leopards lying in ambush and stalking the hunter is typical leopard behaviour.
As far as charging from front is concerned, even tigers charge only as a last resort thus either if cornered in a haaka or freshly wounded. Tigers even man eaters dont just charge for the kill but stalk you.
If you look at the methods of hunting of tiger and leopard, they vary.
Tigers stalk and then sudden short sprint or dash. Leopards ambush and jump.
Thus the tiger 'charge' isnt the same as face on charge of a wounded animal but its normal way of killing. The animals hunt humans in a similar way as they hunt deer. Thats why a tiger will stalk even a human downwind. It doesnt know we cant smell like deer. It presumes we has same senses as wild animals and stalks accordingly. Thats why they are quiet, downwind and no run down like cheetah (if a tiger or most animals for that matter could outrun us in a sprint).
Animals also have personalities. Each one is different. Those of us who have pets know that. Big cats are no different. so a leopard might charge. but its not common for it to do so.
There are also accounts of 'coward' tigers. One incidence in ***** when the tiger was so 'unsporting' that the line of guns let him be.
But guess who had the last laugh the coward tiger or the charging leopard.
Corbett stated clearly that leopards still retain their fear of man despite being maneaters but tigers lose all fear. (he used it as a comparative term).
Hence even for a man like him it took more time shooting leopards. Leopards are smart, adaptable, clever. I have seen it tie knot using tendons like ropesto keep the animal kill secure on tree. Who in the earth could imagine that. Of course it wasnt a sailor grade knot but a rough inter-winding of tendons/limbs to keep it from falling.
Many a times it is common to wait months and months before accounting for a leopard. Ive known a confirmed cattle lifter and a ?man eater (lifted certainly 1 and maybe 2 children) (giving him the benefit of doubt) followed and tracked for 18 months before being shot.
As far as charging from front is concerned, even tigers charge only as a last resort thus either if cornered in a haaka or freshly wounded. Tigers even man eaters dont just charge for the kill but stalk you.
If you look at the methods of hunting of tiger and leopard, they vary.
Tigers stalk and then sudden short sprint or dash. Leopards ambush and jump.
Thus the tiger 'charge' isnt the same as face on charge of a wounded animal but its normal way of killing. The animals hunt humans in a similar way as they hunt deer. Thats why a tiger will stalk even a human downwind. It doesnt know we cant smell like deer. It presumes we has same senses as wild animals and stalks accordingly. Thats why they are quiet, downwind and no run down like cheetah (if a tiger or most animals for that matter could outrun us in a sprint).
Animals also have personalities. Each one is different. Those of us who have pets know that. Big cats are no different. so a leopard might charge. but its not common for it to do so.
There are also accounts of 'coward' tigers. One incidence in ***** when the tiger was so 'unsporting' that the line of guns let him be.
But guess who had the last laugh the coward tiger or the charging leopard.
Corbett stated clearly that leopards still retain their fear of man despite being maneaters but tigers lose all fear. (he used it as a comparative term).
Hence even for a man like him it took more time shooting leopards. Leopards are smart, adaptable, clever. I have seen it tie knot using tendons like ropesto keep the animal kill secure on tree. Who in the earth could imagine that. Of course it wasnt a sailor grade knot but a rough inter-winding of tendons/limbs to keep it from falling.
Many a times it is common to wait months and months before accounting for a leopard. Ive known a confirmed cattle lifter and a ?man eater (lifted certainly 1 and maybe 2 children) (giving him the benefit of doubt) followed and tracked for 18 months before being shot.
You want more gun control? Use both hands!
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.
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Bespoke
- One of Us (Nirvana)
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Re: Maneater of Devprayag
This leopard is a maneater and injured ,so how is going to behave will depend upon extent of his injuries and what are his physical limits.
Leopards do charge under certain conditions.when hunted with hounds charges are very frequent.
We must not forget there are two types of leopards found in the region.
There is no characteristics justifying a division of leopards into species they are simply classified into big and small variety according to sportsmen of past based on careful measurements and behavior patterns.
Big Variety
Any leopard in this variety is generally 7 feet 6 inches and over in length.In size and length big leopards are almost equal to tigress this variety is generally forest loving and prey upon same size as a tiger,When Big leopard turns into maneater it generally prefers the depth of the forest.
Smaller Variety
Its known for its boldness and its habit of frequenting the immediate vicinity of the house and huts and are generally cattle,goat or stray dog lifters and during daytime they find ample cover in caves ,scrub jungle ,ravines etc.This variety is considered much more cunning when dealing with humans.
All the information Prashant has posted on the subject this maneater sounds like he is remember of the smaller variety.
Leopards do charge under certain conditions.when hunted with hounds charges are very frequent.
We must not forget there are two types of leopards found in the region.
There is no characteristics justifying a division of leopards into species they are simply classified into big and small variety according to sportsmen of past based on careful measurements and behavior patterns.
Big Variety
Any leopard in this variety is generally 7 feet 6 inches and over in length.In size and length big leopards are almost equal to tigress this variety is generally forest loving and prey upon same size as a tiger,When Big leopard turns into maneater it generally prefers the depth of the forest.
Smaller Variety
Its known for its boldness and its habit of frequenting the immediate vicinity of the house and huts and are generally cattle,goat or stray dog lifters and during daytime they find ample cover in caves ,scrub jungle ,ravines etc.This variety is considered much more cunning when dealing with humans.
All the information Prashant has posted on the subject this maneater sounds like he is remember of the smaller variety.
“Bravery is believing in yourself, and that thing nobody can teach you.”
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captrakshitsharma
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Re: Maneater of Devprayag
Doc we are all keenly following your great adventure. It is very enlightening , educating and also very humbling to hear from a keen sportsman like yourself about the complexities and dangers of going after a man eating leopard.
Trust me a lot of us would take a sabbatical away from work at a drop of a hat to accompany Mr. Singh on a excursion like this. I also know he would only choose a very accomplished , matured ,seasoned and ethical sportsman to accompany him . This speaks greatly of yourself and your knowledge in the field and also of the land.
I am sure you spent all the time you could that the pressing demands of life and profession must have permitted , however I myself and everyone else here would have loved to hear more of the first hand narratives from a dear friend and a fellow IFGian. Your words and writing is very engaging and a pleasure to read , its almost akin to reading the great Carpet Sahib. I am not letting you go on my next trip to doon without a some more details of your adventure shared over some golden liquid from the land of scots. Cheers... So long........
Trust me a lot of us would take a sabbatical away from work at a drop of a hat to accompany Mr. Singh on a excursion like this. I also know he would only choose a very accomplished , matured ,seasoned and ethical sportsman to accompany him . This speaks greatly of yourself and your knowledge in the field and also of the land.
I am sure you spent all the time you could that the pressing demands of life and profession must have permitted , however I myself and everyone else here would have loved to hear more of the first hand narratives from a dear friend and a fellow IFGian. Your words and writing is very engaging and a pleasure to read , its almost akin to reading the great Carpet Sahib. I am not letting you go on my next trip to doon without a some more details of your adventure shared over some golden liquid from the land of scots. Cheers... So long........
I dont dial 911... I dial .357
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hulk
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Re: Maneater of Devprayag
the story sound like the GHOST AND THE DARKNESS staring walkilmer ,AND ompuri ., i think leopards have some super natural powers to hunt
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prashantsingh
- Poster of the Month - Aug 2011
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Re: Maneater of Devprayag
timmy wrote: From the most dangerous, the author rated them this way:
1. Leopard
2. Lion
3. Cape Buffalo
4. Elephant
5. Rhinoceros
.
Ignorance is bliss.
I wish I had not read this and watched that video.
I was trying to get in touch with Singh since yesterday.
He finally called up half an hour ago.
Asked me to get Drinking water, Soap , Maggie , Eggs and lots of salt for the leeches.
The leopard has struck again.
As Singh had predicted. Down in the valley. Near the village. Killed a Goat this time.
No more updates from now till I get back.
Taking my daughters pocket camera. Can take more snaps that way.
I will drive up to the kuttcha road. They will be waiting for me there.
It's going to be a long night.
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shooter
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Re: Maneater of Devprayag
We must not forget there are two types of leopards found in the region.
Its a pity there is no formal distinction between the two sub species.
The 'mor maar baghera/bagheri' literally peacock killing leopard (remember the anglicised bageera in jungle book?) hasbeen recognised as a smaller subspecies for centuries even by illeterate tribals. but panthera tigris corbetti was recognised as a separate subspecies though the difference in the royal bengal and corbetti isnt as varied as mor mar bagheri and the adhvesra bhagera. (sorry just using local regional dilect dont know the different in other parts of india)
You want more gun control? Use both hands!
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.
God made man and God made woman, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted. by Jose Gasset.