Update on Airgun case

[fantumfan2003]

WTP

No harm in being optimistic. No point in being bluntly realistic too....too many vested interests, objects, individuals and organisations at play in this country catering to their own selfish interests.......

How did you conclude that a stay WILL be granted.At the moment they are only talking of filing an appeal.

How about showing us ignorant noobs as to how its really done ? Come on show us and lets get it done shall we ?

I did not see any one doing anything earlier.I do not expect anything now or later other than hand wringing and long posts on how it is contrary to democratic priciples/the constitution/Mahatma Gandhi' ideals/ancient scriptures and what the sabzi wala/chai wala feels/says

M.

[girrish sharma]

Sir,
ThanQ for ur great effort. We hv recd confirmation from Sports Minister thru news in times of india. We will appreciate if u pl inform the department of Home affair contacted and their confirmation
Kishori mondal

[winnie_the_pooh]

How about showing us ignorant noobs as to how its really done ? Come on show us and lets get it done shall we ?

So you want suggestions?

(Virtually impossible )

How about 30-40 people from different parts of the country getting together and meeting the President of NRAI just to show their support for the cause ? That can be a start.

( The impossible)

Collecting 3-4 lakh rupess for the legal fees of a good lawyer( not the topmost lawyer) in the Supreme Court. That should get your appeal filed and pay for a good lawyer for one hearing.You would need another 5-6 lakh rupees for the final hearing( as per today's rates).The AOR can manage on regular dates prior to that.So a total of 8-10 lakhs.

[eljefe]

If these same air gun manufacturers had offered some quality all these years, there would have been an army of loyal fans...but wham bam thank you maam applies here-very eminently, at that.
Mondal and his ilk can come here , cap in hand, but what have the air gun manufacturers done for the Indian airgun owners besides make a pile , over the years?
will it be the turn of the 12 bore manufacturers next?
DONT watch this space

[fantumfan2003]

eljefe

We should not lend them a hand just because they dished out shoddy products ? And did we not get imported airguns in lieu of good local air rifles ?

So lets go tell the govt to ban and put under license, cameras...because we dont even make a camera in the country which is half as good as any international brand. Hell....we do not make any cameras at all. You will call me crazy for saying that right ? You should.....

Sorry but I see it as flawed logic.

Lets move forward to keep our airguns for freedom's sake, sport's sake and not whine about bad quality of local airguns. Like wise for RKBA and firearms.

M.

If these same air gun manufacturers had offered some quality all these years, there would have been an army of loyal fans...but wham bam thank you maam applies here-very eminently, at that.
Mondal and his ilk can come here , cap in hand, but what have the air gun manufacturers done for the Indian airgun owners besides make a pile , over the years?
will it be the turn of the 12 bore manufacturers next?
DONT watch this space

-- Thu Jun 23, 2011 18:53 --

Whats the total number of airgun owners in the country ? What is your guess ?

M.

How about showing us ignorant noobs as to how its really done ? Come on show us and lets get it done shall we ?

So you want suggestions?

(Virtually impossible )

How about 30-40 people from different parts of the country getting together and meeting the President of NRAI just to show their support for the cause ? That can be a start.

( The impossible)

Collecting 3-4 lakh rupess for the legal fees of a good lawyer( not the topmost lawyer) in the Supreme Court. That should get your appeal filed and pay for a good lawyer for one hearing.You would need another 5-6 lakh rupees for the final hearing( as per today's rates).The AOR can manage on regular dates prior to that.So a total of 8-10 lakhs.

[Vikram]

FF,

What Winnie in his ever unmeandering manner( ) says is that we need to have the goals defined in a very specific and concrete manner and work towards them.What has been happening so far is that except a few dedicated individuals, not much has been done.What he suggests is that most of us have been bemoaning but have not done much fieldwork.

May be we should take a hard look at ourselves.Just thinking.


Best-
Vikram

[maximus1]

Abhijeet .Thanks for sharing this very promising news. great damn great....
Rudra

Senior NAGRI member Moraad Khan recently met officials at both the Sports Ministry as well as the Ministry of Home Affairs, to discuss the recent Delhi High Court judgement concerning airguns.

His discussions with the officials of both these Ministries has been very productive and due to his untiring efforts, the Sports Ministry has taken upon itself to approach the Supreme Court to appeal the judgement as well as request an immediate stay on the order.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[fantumfan2003]

I am quite certain that what I am saying here is echoing sentiments of most of the enthusiasts here.

Its not that most of the enthusiasts are only into bemoaning and venting their frustration. Most are still ignorant of the calamity that might befall them including some top shots. Enthusiasts need guidance and most ask for it but have got very little of it or none at all. Sure money is needed and many will contribute. I think it will be a much more stronger and effective movement if the dedicated individuals provide guidance. There is a lot of energy which needs to be guided in the right direction.
Calling a spade a bloody shovel does'nt help......

M.

FF,

What Winnie in his ever unmeandering manner( ) says is that we need to have the goals defined in a very specific and concrete manner and work towards them.What has been happening so far is that except a few dedicated individuals, not much has been done.What he suggests is that most of us have been bemoaning but have not done much fieldwork.

May be we should take a hard look at ourselves.Just thinking.


Best-
Vikram

[hamiclar01]

Its not that most of the enthusiasts are only into bemoaning and venting their frustration. Most are still ignorant of the calamity that might befall them including some top shots. Enthusiasts need guidance and most ask for it but have got very little of it or none at all. Sure money is needed and many will contribute. I think it will be a much more stronger and effective movement if the dedicated individuals provide guidance. There is a lot of energy which needs to be guided in the right direction.
Calling a spade a bloody shovel does'nt help......

That is indeed quite true.

Viks, there is a difference being a devil's advocate to rouse people, and just a wheezy, cantankerous codger, beating his stick on the ground in annoyance, loudly spewing his dislike and foam all 'round

[essdee1972]

Dear All,

Even as a novice with only an el cheapo air gun, I am willing to fight, what I need is DIRECTION. Any action without direction is at best a farce, at worst a public nuisance. And direction is something novices like me look for from the experienced guys. I am ready and willing to contribute money, time (which of course is limited), and energy to the fight. And I am sure most others are, as well. But only when we are given a direction by seniors can we fight. Otherwise we are limited to mental you-know-what on the internet.

Sorry to say this, but apart from moves by the very senior members (Abhijeet, et al) - e.g. the subject of this post - we are not made aware of any other properly directed actions here. We must note that while most of us will be willing to contribute to IFG / NAGRI, we would not be that eager for some unknown person making some claim.

I would also like to confess to being quite an "anti" till a few years back, slowly swivelling to the opposite end. A few months on IFG has accerated the process and made me a dyed-in-the-wool "pro". I would not mind contributing for RKBA, even if the "real" guns are impossible for me to acquire.

Regards,

EssDee

[art_collector]

That's good news

[airgun_novice]

Good work - Good progress - Good Luck. Thank you very much for the efforts.

Personally I do not see any remote logic in "licensing" air guns. If so, all the efforts in harnessing the power of kids and training them for the future of Indian glory will sink. The court can not really think that non-adults can be granted "fire-arm" licenses while adults would be refrained from ? What about the poorer section ? Can they still go for licenses ? I doubt it. Can they show that they can afford INR 1L of an air-rifle and INR 50K of fancy accessories ?

So what if even the licenses are issued ? DOES THE COURT GUARANTEE THAT A PERSON LICENSED WILL OBEY EVERY NORM STRICTLY ? Consider car licenses issued in Delhi - rich "connected" guys on a drunken spree mow down sleeping poor. Those brats were "licensed" - at least they definitely had US DLs - yup that very US, where they would not dare to drive drunk. Maneka Gandhi ought to understand this even better - after all, Sanjay Gandhi took off on his last flight in pajamas - and he was "licensed" pilot. Pajamas is against the rule for the pilots to be flying in.

Anyway coming back to rules and logic - do they really apply in India these days ?

[goodboy_mentor]

I am willing to fight, what I need is DIRECTION. Any action without direction is at best a farce, at worst a public nuisance.

Directions for what purpose?

If purpose is only to be allowed to keep airguns without licenses as a matter of "exemptions" being "granted" by State and being at the mercy of whims and fancies of all those in power, then we are already facing the results, the road is also not very difficult to beg again for "exemptions". We can beg that Delhi High Court has clearly ignored material facts related to the case. One of the material facts related to the case is Section 42 of Arms Act 1959, wherein Parliament has clearly delegated powers to the Government to conduct census of firearms. Now please ask yourself if Parliament had desired that all firearms should be possessed by citizens only under licenses, then question of census does not arise. Therefore it is also the desire of Parliament that people should also be possessing firearms without licenses, hence the need for conducting census. Hence by this judgment Delhi High Court clearly goes against the will of Parliament and overstepped its jurisdiction.

If purpose is to fight for your right to keep and bear arms, then the fight is difficult though not impossible. The case would have to be well documented and fought keeping in mind the biases and prejudices of judges against RKBA in general. It would be to challenge the bigger issue that is creating the present nuisance i.e. challenge the various sections of Arms Act including various clauses of Section 3 and 25 as ultra vires. The aim should be to make Supreme Court utter that RKBA is a fundamental right. In my opinion RKBA is a fundamental right under Articles 19 and 21 and requirement of license in first place to possess a firearm and sending person to jail for the same is violative of Article 20(3) because a person cannot be asked to incriminate himself for enjoying his fundamental right(license for which is already given by Constitution). RKBA under Articles 19 and 21 has also been explained in detail at http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/R ... -36011.asp

[eljefe]

5 years ago when things were fine and dandy, where were Mondal and his ilk? laughing their way to the bank? now that their ass is declared grass, come running to IFG for support and help? yup, calling a spade a bloody shovel does not help- because the shovel makers , in their arrogance, dug their own grave-with their shoddy shovels...the topshots never have and never will need Mondal and co, thats the way the cooky crumbles. Yup, I'll miss my National 35 I got as a school graduation gift, but I have a HW97 to play with.Hundreds of noobs and kids write in with doubts, repair questions, tech problems, etc
Pity the airgun manufacturers association couldnt find us then,but now come whining, cap in hand. Lets hear from Kishori Mondal?

[goodboy_mentor]

Hope airgun manufacturers have realised the perils of living on "exemptions". The main question is are they interested in only getting back the "exemptions" or they are interested in destroying the root cause of the problem to make Supreme Court utter that RKBA is a fundamental right?