WJ Geoffrey model 96 .375 mag

[The Doc]

Self defence

Yes, against a charging pachyderm !

Rp.

[peterdk]

hey i read that you have mobs etc. now if you can line them up, you could get a bowling effect with a solid

best

peter

[Vikram]

The gun still has no practical purpose in India.

Self defence

Or pest control i.e. legally permitted culling of wild boars and Nilgais.


Best-
Vikram

[xl_target]

any thing you do with a 30-06, you can do with a 375 H&H only with more power behind, so if you have use for a 30-06 you have a use for a 375 H&H

any kind of culling of pigs is great with a 375 H&H, also with the added avantage that if you want to hunt in other country's the 375 is about perfect for most hunting in africa, it can be used with great sucess in europe, america and australia. so having a gun that you have used and are proficient in shooting because you have practised with it, would be the most practial of them all.

so the practial application of a 375 H&H is numerous even in india

i would rather have more power than needed in any situation than the oppesite, but that is just me

best

peter

Peter,
You are making the mistake of applying logic to the firearms situation in India. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. There aren't many things you can legally do with a 30-06 either, apart from perforating paper.

You cannot legally hunt anything in India anymore, even feral pigs.
You do know that the legal ammo quota is a mere handful of cartridges per year? Practice with it? Legally? C'mon, you have enough ammo to make sure that the rifle is functioning and maybe you have enough left over to check that it is still zeroed. There is absolutely no way you are going to get proficient with a rifle with the legal ammo quota.

It doesn't matter what caliber your rifle is if you don't have the ammunition to use it properly.

Vikram,
Do they also allow you extra ammo when you get this legal permit to cull crop raiding pests? To get this permit, you obviously have to be a farmer or own cropland, correct? ... and this permit can only be used on your own croplands, correct?
Exactly how many pests can you cull with your legal ammo quota?

[Vikram]

XL,

I was merely explaining where that .375 can be used than suggesting everyday applications for it.
Best-
Vikram

[xl_target]

Vikram, I was trying to explain to Peter the sheer unfairness and the unnecessarily burdensome regulation that the Indian gun owner has to put up with.
I was also trying to explain why the frustration of owning a weapon in any caliber is so intense because for all practical purposes a civilian isn't allowed to use it.

Not many people can avail themselves of the permits that you mention.

[Bespoke]

I completely agree with Peter .375 can do whatever a .30-06 and .315 would do in a more assuring manner.

MoA,

If you could explain in detail why you think it doesn’t have practical use in India it would be greatly appreciated instead of one liner which do not mean anything.
As Winnie has righty said it has a bigger bang than medium bore calibers a bigger bang can sometimes have physiological advantage in self defense situations .It would simply be more devastating than any other medium bore rifle.
Yes one can take it for purpose of hunting overseas provided they have a valid export permit.

Xltarget,

I think what Peter was suggesting is the use of.375 Mag caliber the quota of ammo and ban on hunting is still a consideration even if you have a .30-06 or .315 so what is practical use of .30-06 or .315 in India?

The only disadvantage is ammo is more expensive than .30-06 and .315 other than that .375 outperforms any other medium bore caliber.

I think .375 would be much more useful in culling than .We have seen numerous incidents in India when the forest department have injured animals with using not big enough gun, which have been declared man-eaters or rogues with .315’s instead of finish them off right away and prolong agony of animal and increase the potential danger from the animal .Recently when Shafath Ali Khan went after Faizabad maneater he choose .458 Win Mag and it proved its worth for he shot his second shot when tiger was 3 feet away and stopped it right there and then I wonder if he would have been alive if he had a .30-06 or .315.

[MoA]

Shafat Ali Khan may have used a .458 which in his unique situation might be appropriate (would have rather prefered the use of a dart gun but that is a different story) but how many people on here would even be considered for a cull?

A bigger bang in a wedding yes. In a self defence situation give me a shotgun any day, especially at the ranges it would occur at.

A .30-06 (not that I am a fan of that) would at least in theory be useful in ISSF. Try it with a .375

So unless you're going after the Big 4 in Africa, why?

For non-dangerous game you do not need a .375.

-- Fri Apr 08, 2011 21:42 --

The gun still has no practical purpose in India.

Self defence

Or pest control i.e. legally permitted culling of wild boars and Nilgais.


Best-
Vikram

Why not then use a .50 BMG.

I have shot enough Nilgai and Wild Boar when it was legal in India with a .30 Carbine and 12 bore. On occasion with an 8 mm Mauser and did not come across one that complained that I was undergunned.

[Bespoke]

Shafat Ali Khan may have used a .458 which in his unique situation might be appropriate (would have rather prefered the use of a dart gun but that is a different story) but how many people on here would even be considered for a cull? .

It’s very easy to say use dart gun on man-eater or a rogue sitting in front of a computer try following or sitting up in an Indian jungle for a man-eater with dart gun in real life my friend . You have to consider millions of people living on edge of forests in India and have unavoidable encounters with the wild.

A bigger bang in a wedding yes. In a self defence situation give me a shotgun any day, especially at the ranges it would occur at..

The endorsement on almost every rifle owner is "Self defense" everyone would prefer a shotgun but if one had to compare rifle in medium bore to a .375 in self defense situations it is no match at all.

A .30-06 (not that I am a fan of that) would at least in theory be useful in ISSF. Try it with a .375.

Not even 0.01% of gun owners in India shoot ISSF

So unless you're going after the Big 4 in Africa, why?.

It will do what other medium bores can do just in a better manner in India.

Why not then use a .50 BMG..

No thank you we still have enough supply of good old NE big bore rifles and as they say life is too short to shoot ugly guns.

[xl_target]

MoA wrote:A bigger bang in a wedding yes. In a self defence situation give me a shotgun any day, especially at the ranges it would occur at..

Lets examine using a rifle like the .375 for close-in self defense.

There is the huge overpenetration issue if used at close range on a burglar. Who is sleeping in the room behind where the burglar is standing? Or if outside, in a neighborhood, who is sleeping in the next house over?
If indoors, do you know how painful a ruptured eardrum is, especially for a child who might be in the same room?
There is also the chance of ricochets injuring the shooter and/or his family members, considering poured concrete construction of many Indian homes.
Using a larger caliber rifle for close-in self-defense is not a good idea. In fact, it is probably a very bad idea. There are many other weapons more suited to that role. A shot gun is definitely the better choice.

If you are going to use it to drop a burglar out in your yard or in one of your fields, then it is not self defense, its murder.

[MoA]

I guess like in a US context a .30-06 is the ideal caliber for everything from BR to solving the economic crisis and global warming, in an Indian context it is the .375 HH.

Ah well one could argue about this endlessly.

[prashantsingh]

Dear XL .
In your introduction I was reading (recently)about your uncle from Coorg who had a room full of weapons. I have a friend from the same part of the country where,even today, it is a routine practice to fire their rifles on most occassions . Be it weddings ,engagements or a birth of a child in the family.The bigger the Bang, the better. He even told me that there was a time when the Coorgi's did not need a licence to carry Arms.
I belong to western U.P. and have relatives in places where the law and order situation is still quite bad. Though they would prefer a pistol / revolver (at close range) inside the house , a rifle would always be a better option when they are out in the "fields". Land disputes can turn really bad .
I live in a state (Uttarakhand) where maneating leopards have killed more than 200 people and injured more than 350 in the past 10 years.Every year the Forest dept. issues permits to recognised hunters to terminate these animals.
One could argue endlessly.
But the .375 HH still has (though very limited) a "practical purpose in India".

[xl_target]

Prashantsingh, everything that you said makes sense but you did notice how many times I used the word LEGAL in my previous posts?

I should also mention that my uncle from Coorg never brought out the weapons unless we were out hunting (it was still legal then). He would have kicked my behind if I would have been stupid enough to fire a celebratory shot in the air.
Ok, here I'm just pulling your chain but how can the forest department find "recognized hunters" when hunting is not allowed?

[prashantsingh]

Yes indeed XL.
and like peterdk said.
It is cheaper to carry your own rifle when going on a hunt abroad.
The import permit would cost about US$ 50 for a rifle . But if you rented one abroad it would cost the same amount per day. That's 50X45 = Rs 2250 a day.
I prefered to rent one on my last trip and am doing the same for my next simply because it will save me all the paperwork and running around our "sarkaari daftars" for permission.

[Bespoke]

I would like to add in .375 as self defense scenario.

All Self defense situations do not occur at closed quarters and I think everyone who knows how to handle a gun knows it is very harmful to fire leave .375 any sort of firearms indoors and ruptured eardrum will be an issue even if you try firing a handgun inside room until and unless it is an absolute necessary when there is a choice between ruptured eardrum and Life I would definitely choose life! And the chances of flying bullets inside concrete walls are an issue with all sorts of firearms from (.22lr to .700N.E) including shotguns.

I personally know someone who owes his life to .375 Mag during a naxailite raid at his farm where shotgun would have been useless and .375 Mag has been used in Zimbabwe in very many cases for self protection successfully.

If you drop one of the trespassers in your field out of many its Self defense not a murder.