Brno ZP49 Hard Hitter DeLuxe.

[HSharief]

Mack The Knife, great find. Like Asif said, don't open the chokes, from what little I know and I'm sure others will chime in too, the barrels seem too thin at the muzzle for any work to be done. Also, as you learn to shoot better, you won't notice the tight chokes, which in turn will also help you be a better shot.

Congratulations again. I'm sure you'll work on it and double the value.

[Grumpy]

?????? What ? Those muzzles have loads of meat in them. Plenty enough to open out the chokes to anything desired.
Full choke is only good for Turkeys and Trap - otherwise it`s a liability.

[Mack The Knife]

Sorry Dodger - just found a whole page of photographs and correspondence that I didn`t realise existed.

No problem. If you still need any from a particular angle in softer light, etc., do let me know.

I see what you mean about the rust. That would be pretty terrifying if it were further down the rib. As it is you will have to hope that it has not penetrated too far down or into the barrels. When you get the gun you`ll have to try and remove any loose scale with a stiff wire and flood it with WD40 and hope that it penetrates to all the rust.

After reaching my friends farm, I did WD40 the front and entire length of the rib, top and bottom. There is no rust in the bores as far as I can see. For some reason the kit I am using does not clean the bore as I would like it to. However, more on that on another thread.

I did not have a wire brush at hand but used a stiff toothbrush and a safety pin to remove the loose scales. I would say that the tip of the pin went into the rib by approximately 1 to 1.5mm. I will take another picture later in the day showing the front of the rib.

When you get the gun you`ll have to try and remove any loose scale with a stiff wire and flood it with WD40 and hope that it penetrates to all the rust. I do know a way to help ensure that the rust is killed which I`ll tell you about via email.

I have decided to keep the gun so do let me know when time permits.

Mack The Knife

[Mack The Knife]

Mehul,

Thanks a lot for the heads-up and please convey the same to Johan. Sorry, I couldn't chat longer but I was in a mad rush yesterday morning.

Mack The Knife

[Mack The Knife]

Shahid,

Do you recall what cartridge length your cousins gun was chambered for?

Mack The Knife

[Mack The Knife]

Sharief and Grumpy,

I have no plans on opening up the choke at the moment and probably never will.

Whilst we have both trap and skeet ranges at our range, I am a casual shooter, who will shoot skeet with this gun if that's what my friends want to shoot (they have skeet guns) or shoot trap if they are not around.

I think it was Asif who remarked that SxS guns are not allowed at ranges. That's not true. There is no objection to SxS guns for casual shooting, atleast nt at my club. It is only at the pre-national and national level comps, that one is expected to use an over/under.

Mack The Knife

[Mack The Knife]

Patterning pics to follow later.

Mack The Knife

[Grumpy]

Dodger, the chamber length is almost certainly 70mm - 2 3/4". There should be some indication of that in the proof marks. It`s easy enough to check anyway: Push a pencil ( with a square end ) or something similar down the bore against the wall of the chamber until you feel the tip of the pencil/rod touch the taper of the forcing cone. If your fingers are not sensitive enough to tell then hold the barrels up to the light and push a narrow rod up the chamber until you see it touch the forcing cone. Either way then measure the rod.
Alternatively get a 2 3/4" unfired cartridge and drop it into a chamber. It should seat by being lightly pushed without being forced into the chamber.
Being labelled a `Hard Hitter` and having full choke in both barrels it could be a wildfowler in which case it might have 76mm - 3" - chambers.

[Grumpy]

As regards the chokes it depends what you want to use the gun for - if as an all-round game gun then full chokes are a total waste of time. If for long range wildfowling then full/full is fine. I suspect the gun was intended as a wildfowler because no wingshooting or general game gun comes with full chokes apart from a wildfowler. That doesn`t mean that you should keep it with full chokes.......there isn`t a lot of wildfowling in India from what I hear.
I don`t know why Asif is so insistent about shotguns having full chokes because they are only of use for Trap, Turkeys and Ducks/Geese. Even Trap is notional nowadays as many ( most ? ) Olympic standard guns are using more open chokes because of the realisation that a `chippy` kill is a kill whereas a clean miss is a miss.
Don`t poke about in the bores or chambers with lengths of wire - scratching the bores is a very bad idea. If the bores won`t clean properly it almost certainly means that the gun has been used with cartridges that have plastic shot cups and a solvent cleaner is required - not even a ( bronze ) wire brush will remove all the plastic.

[Mack The Knife]

Grumpy,

Will do the chamber length test after I return from the Police Commissioners office this afternoon. A rough test, similar to yours, on 23rd night indicated a chamber length of approximately 3 1/4". I realise there is no such chamber length but I was very tired that night and left it at that. Will do a more accurate test today. I suspect it may be a 3" chamber. 2 3/4" shells fit without any resistance. However, I don't have a 3" cartridge to try.

I have looked at all the external stampings but I could not find the chamber length.

I don`t know why Asif is so insistent about shotguns having full chokes.

Asif used to have a mental block about his ability to shoot shotguns well. However, he did fairly well at informal clay shooting using Abhijeets DBBL gun which has full and full chokes.

If the bores won`t clean properly it almost certainly means that the gun has been used with cartridges that have plastic shot cups and a solvent cleaner is required.

Now that is going to be a problem. The Americans wont send solvent via post or courier and there is nothing available in Bangalore at the moment. My version of Ed's Red wasn't too successful. I have a feeling the transmission fluid may not be appropriate.

I have quite a few questions from turnscrews to cleaning kits and will start a new topic either later in the day or tomorrow.

Thanks.

Mack The Knife

[Mack The Knife]

The following pics show the patterns achieved at 30 yards.

It was mount and shoot within a second and there was no deliberate aiming. This did result in one pulled shot (the first pic). All shots were taken by my friend as we wanted to retain as much consistency in the exercise as possible. The only exception being the pic that shows the pattern of both right and left barrel with No.1 shot on the same sheet.

The circle drawn in blue has a diameter of 12".

IOF Special No. 1, right barrel, 30 yards.



IOF Special No. 1, left barrel, 30 yards.



IOF Special No. 1, right and left barrel, 30 yards.



IOF Special No. 6, right barrel, 30 yards.



Another pic of the same.



IOF Special No. 6, left barrel, 30 yards.



Lyalvale No. 7 1/2, right barrel, 30 yards.



Lyalvale No. 7 1/2, left barrel, 30 yards.



One friend has a manual clay throwing machine but since he could not make it, I was made to practice on an old frisbee with the remaining eight or ten IOF No.1s.





Would appreciate comments from the shotgunners amongst us.

Mack The Knife

[kanwar76]

Gr8888...........Congratulations Rusty,

Nice gun...

-Inder

[shahid]

A no. 1 KF special shot is never the one to write home about.

Patterns with no. 6 and Lavalle Express no. 7 1/2 are fair. The Gun will do the job of casual skeet and trap shooting at ranges up to 25 to 30 yards.

Your gun in all probability is Chambered for 70 mm, or 2 3/4 " cartridges. 3"cartridges were uncommon and I do not think Brno ever manufactured 3"magnum chambered S/S guns then.

My cousin's Gun was chambered for 65 mm or 2 1/2 inch cartridges like classic English field Guns, although a number of Astrams were fired with it.

In your case, for clay / skeet trap use the 24 gram loads will shoot perfectly in this gun with little recoil, this being a heavier gun.

3 inch chambered gun is hardly required unless you are a very serious wildfowler.

Where would you get 3 inch Wildfowling loads ? or Alfa Max from Eley ? Hardly available in India now.

As for the choke, do not tinker with it at all. Your patterns are not really dense. Let it be. The gun will perform fine in normal use with no. 4, 6 and 7 1/2 cartridges.

[Mack The Knife]

Where have you been Inder?

Is your daughter okay now?

Mack The Knife

[shahid]

Poor old Frisbee. It would have never imagined ending up like that ! It's guts have been shot out !