The Case for Best Guns in India

[peterdk]

Peter,

What you have said makes sense and I couldn’t agree more.

This being said I have mentioned in my post that one should be very beware of Indian gunsmith's when dealing with Best Guns and just because we do not have competent gunsmiths shouldn’t mean we should be deprived of these guns. I think the process of exportation should be allowed for purpose of repair.

I agree that a piece of art belong to the world but If we let these guns go there is no way we can have them back since there is ban on import, we feel trapped and find it hard to retain what we have, If Importation is allowed then I see no point in banning exportation but how fair is it that if you allowed no food but someone keeps sucking your BLOOD on regular basis! yup that’s how we feel.
We from IFG need to raise enough awareness so that Best guns get the treatment they deserve.
I will put it this way if Tigers are not well kept in India doesn’t mean they should be thrown out of India completely .The key is to change the way they are treated and save them from extinction.

Plus the flowing mane of Lions amidst innumerable battle scars will always be majestic compared to a bunch of monkeys in Caps !!

mate you know i agree with you on principle, it is just so deppressing to see all the once working pieces of art, being destroyed by neglect and stupidity(stupidity meaning that i am not a nuclear scientist, so i dont f**k around with nuclear plants) now if your village blacksmiths would stop tuching fine guns, all would be okay..... but when some of your major gunmakers come on this forum wanting to make new and wonderfull designs and guns and dont know even the simple mecanics that is part of gundesign then i cry for your nation as a whole.

best

peter

this would be a good argument when i file a writ on import restrictions,case pending due to elections.

good please include that said guns should be safeguarded in a museum for safe keeping, to make it fair for everybody i suggest that i supply the owners with new double rifles from my own shop.

best

peter

dear peterdk,

nice eagle ring.
Left hand 3rd finger???

working man's hands as evidenced by the thicker than usual skin on your hands.

mate you know i am not smart enough to live soly from my head so i have to use my hands as well

The mark on your thumb. Judging by a similar shade where the nail meets the skin and yellowish discolouration of your index finger, i would say cigerette.

If the yellowish discolouration is indeed a cigerette mark then why the left hand?
the fact that you are holding the gun in your left hand means you are using the right one for the camera showing you are right handed so why smoke with the left one?

i am finishing the stocks of the first 10 C-class double rifles, oil goes on with right hand therefore left hand for smoking

The nails show no sign of recent or past trauma even mild one. (except at 7 o clock but thats to the skin)
Have you not been tinkering with your toys for some time now?

yes, but the small files dont do to much damage when they cut me, but you should see a picture of my right shoulder at the moment, it is inall teh colors of the rainbow, one 600 NE, four 500 NE and three 450NE double rifles for regulating will do that to you rather fast

Do you use curved scissors to clip your nails?

the usual nail cutters such as commonly used in india dont give such uniform curve of such curvature unless one uses it to cut several small pieces at a time and then file the nail. It seems unlikely from a guy who works metal as it wouldnt be worth it due to trauma caused to nails.

the secret is the siccor from a leatherman weave and a flat file from my work bench

Judging by absence of callouses on your knuckles, though you associate with the wandering people, you dont indulge in their favourite passtime of bare knuckle boxing.

not anymore, i am getting to old and slow, but wait till you see my nose

carpet (blurred but looks like it) in the background shows indoor location. (therefore unlikely to be a workshop). but you are still wearing a long sleeved garment. You dont keep heating to a maximum.

i have several workshops, the one for some of the fine work, is in my house, in one of the gun rooms. allthough spring is almost opon us there is still rather chilly in the shadows, so when i sit down and working it can get a bit cold

some other things but wont write them here; discuss when youre in london.

looking forward to it, dev

best

peter

[dr.jayakumar]

Peter,

What you have said makes sense and I couldn’t agree more.

This being said I have mentioned in my post that one should be very beware of Indian gunsmith's when dealing with Best Guns and just because we do not have competent gunsmiths shouldn’t mean we should be deprived of these guns. I think the process of exportation should be allowed for purpose of repair.

I agree that a piece of art belong to the world but If we let these guns go there is no way we can have them back since there is ban on import, we feel trapped and find it hard to retain what we have, If Importation is allowed then I see no point in banning exportation but how fair is it that if you allowed no food but someone keeps sucking your BLOOD on regular basis! yup that’s how we feel.
We from IFG need to raise enough awareness so that Best guns get the treatment they deserve.
I will put it this way if Tigers are not well kept in India doesn’t mean they should be thrown out of India completely .The key is to change the way they are treated and save them from extinction.

Plus the flowing mane of Lions amidst innumerable battle scars will always be majestic compared to a bunch of monkeys in Caps !!

mate you know i agree with you on principle, it is just so deppressing to see all the once working pieces of art, being destroyed by neglect and stupidity(stupidity meaning that i am not a nuclear scientist, so i dont f**k around with nuclear plants) now if your village blacksmiths would stop tuching fine guns, all would be okay..... but when some of your major gunmakers come on this forum wanting to make new and wonderfull designs and guns and dont know even the simple mecanics that is part of gundesign then i cry for your nation as a whole.

best

peter

this would be a good argument when i file a writ on import restrictions,case pending due to elections.

good please include that said guns should be safeguarded in a museum for safe keeping, to make it fair for everybody i suggest that i supply the owners with new double rifles from my own shop.

best

peter

ha...ha..ha...we don't trade that easy.....by the way how did you get in to know about this antiques ...juuuust inquisitive.

[peterdk]

actually you do trade that easy but it was not a matter of a trade, more of a safe keeping untill you can be trusted to keep these guns safe and sound

well i have been looking at a lot of guns coming out of india during the years that i worked in LONDON as a gunmaker. i run my own company now, making only double rifles and fine shotguns.
i am sure if you look closely enough you will find my name here and there, in the gun business.

best regards

Peter Als Nerving
Taksdale gun & Rifle
Denmark

[dr.jayakumar]

actually you do trade that easy but it was not a matter of a trade, more of a safe keeping untill you can be trusted to keep these guns safe and sound

well i have been looking at a lot of guns coming out of india during the years that i worked in LONDON as a gunmaker. i run my own company now, making only double rifles and fine shotguns.
i am sure if you look closely enough you will find my name here and there, in the gun business.

best regards

Peter Als Nerving
Taksdale gun & Rifle
Denmark

how many doubles have you given in exchange so far?.will see you sure if i come to denmark.can you post some pictures meanwhile of those antiques you got?regards.jk just saw you on the facebook.you are popular i agree.if we are allowed to import sure will pay you a visit.nice italian draft and those doubles.regards.jk

[peterdk]

JK
i dont show and tell like that, if you come to denmark you are most wellcome to come by, i do not understand what you mean by antiques ? the horses are irish and the doubles you see on the facebook page are only the prototypes sofar more will be posted very soon.

best

peter

[dr.jayakumar]

JK
i dont show and tell like that, if you come to denmark you are most wellcome to come by, i do not understand what you mean by antiques ? the horses are irish and the doubles you see on the facebook page are only the prototypes sofar more will be posted very soon.

best

peter

mr.peterdk,antiques=those said to be bought from india when you where in london.thanks for information.regards,jk

[peterdk]

JK i have bought several double rifles that came from india, most of them destroyed to a degree that i was abel to afford them at the london auction houses, i think giving details to someone, that has allready stated, he would be trying to change the export sheme, would be counter productive to my hobby(collecting and preserving) so lets just leave it at that, shall we

best

peter

[marksman]

How about a heavily engraved Side Lock Westley Richard Shotgun with wood screws to keep the action together. Crude wire and iron nails to refix the broken pistol grip and mercilessly hammered trigger guard bow in an attempt to reshape it. It belonged to a Village simpleton in rural maharashtra, seems was a gift to his granddad by some royalty and this guy took it to the police armourer of his district when ever it required repairs. Result....a completely ruined deluxe grade shotgun. This friend of mine called excitedly to come over an have look at a sidelock Westley Richard shotgun which was to arrive at his residence. I was supposed to give my expert comment on the price as he was a prospective buyer. At the same time the devil in me was planning on how to swindle it off from him. My eyes went moist when I saw it.
It happens only in India.
Marksman

[peterdk]

How about a heavily engraved Side Lock Westley Richard Shotgun with wood screws to keep the action together. Crude wire and iron nails to refix the broken pistol grip and mercilessly hammered trigger guard bow in an attempt to reshape it. . Result....a completely ruined deluxe grade shotgun. My eyes went moist when I saw it.
It happens only in India.
Marksman

sad but very true

peter

[winnie_the_pooh]

Peter,

Thankfully they are fewer and fewer of these guns left to ruin in India.As far as horror stories go,how about a H&H Paradox that was gas welded and then peened to tighten up the action and then filed on the face to make it close?

[peterdk]

winnie_the_pooh

surly that cant be true, as captrakshitsharma told me earlyer in this tread, that there are plenty of good gunsmiths in india, and as soon as i stopped laughing and picked myself up from the floor again, i went and looked at the few guns that i have that come from india, and it started all over again but this time it ended in sopping tears rolling down my cheeks.

the sad part is that if you have to bring out the welder to get the gun back on face, you just ad a bit of metal to the hook and then file it back into place, it is not a very reconiced way as we change the cross pin over here, but if you actually had to do it, this is the way.

best

peter

[winnie_the_pooh]

plenty of good gunsmiths in india

Are there? I must be living in a different country then. The fact of the matter is that even if a 'best gun' is in pristine condition,you can't find ammo for the 90% to 95% of them.So what do you do? Better that they be exported so that they can at least be used by their owners for the purpose for which they were built.

There are very few of these guns left in India,that have not been butchered.Also,many of the owners have unrealistic expectations as to their worth.Most get on the net and check up prices.Then regardless of the condition of what they own they want those prices not realizing that what they see has probably been restored at a considerable expense.

Sellers in India want international prices for guns made by well known gunmakers but want Indian prices for commercially made mass produced imported guns.I wait for the day when they want the same price for a S&W .32 as it would fetch in USA.

Many dealers in India will buy a banged up double rifle for Rs20-40,000/- and then go into raptures about the 'export piece' that he has snagged and start dreaming of the killing he is going to make.

[Vikram]

Winnie, Peter was quoting what Rakshith said.


Best-
Vikram

[peterdk]

there is a lyon & lyon 450/400 in the for sale section that would bring 5-800 gbp at the most and before that it would have to pass the Proof house test,which is highly unlikely.
i think the asking price is 10.000 us$, i am looking at a few guns that i have been offered where the dealer is completly off the planet about the price, he is charging a price about 10 times the value of the gun if it were refurbished, and this is supposed to be a dealer who knows what he is talking about, damn carpet dealers.
do you actually have anybody out there that knows enough about guns ? because it is either extremely cheap(good for you) or on the other side of the moon(possibly drugs )
but never ever have i heard about prices at the same level as the rest of the world, very strange

best

peter

[winnie_the_pooh]

Peter,

I think I can get a 450/400 for about Rs.40,000/- if I look but what do I do with it? There is no ammo to be had here except for old Kynoch made that may or may not fire.

You were talking about Indian gun makers.None of them know how to make a gun.

In India,manufacture of arms in the civilian sector is regulated by the Industrial Policy.As per this only the heirs of those who have/had a license to make arms are entitled to get a license.Now what happens is that licenses are given on the basis of whether the applicants father had a license.That gentleman who started the business knew how to make guns his children and now his grandchildren have no idea.So what do they do? They hire cheap labour to make guns.It is a seasonal thing.Most of these workers are from Bihar.Some of them have worked in the Indian Ordnance Factories but have no idea about making shotguns.They are hired for a period of time and after this period is over they are paid their wages and leave.Many of these workers supplement their income by making illegal guns when they are not gainfully employed

If some one thinks of making changes and improving his products,he lacks the resources.If some one has the resources,he lacks knowledge.When they learn of the sort of investment required,all back off.Why invest when you are making good money?

Most if not all,should not have been given a license in the first place.The only welcome change I see is the new Policy on making guns that allows those willing to put in about 10 million dollars to start making guns for the civilian trade.Hopefully some one will do just that.Double barrel shotguns for those willing to spend and pump action shotguns for the price conscious and for home defence.