Exemption from depositing Arms during elections

[PRITAM PATEL]

Hello everyone,

Hope you all have a wonderful 2011.

When there is an Election or Riots, Hon. D.M. or C.P. issues a notice to submit Fire Arms owned by Law abiding Citizens in that particular area.

I was just curious,

1. weather such orders are legal or authority is just forcing Colonial Privilege which has no provision in Arms Act or any other law.

2. What about person having a Multi State/ All India validity and there is an Election or Riots in one state,

If similar topic has been discussed earlier, kindly direct me to the link

Regards

Pritam Patel

[goodboy_mentor]

1. weather such orders are legal or authority is just forcing Colonial Privilege which has no provision in Arms Act or any other law.

If you could provide a copy of such order/s, it would be easier to understand and analyze such order/s and then comment. As far as I can recall, it is only Central Government who is empowered to give such blanket orders(relic of colonial Indian Arms Act 1878).
"Arms Act 1959 Section 17. Variation, suspension and revocation of licences
(9) The Central Government may, by order in the Official Gazette, suspend or revoke or direct any licensing authority to suspend or revoke all or any licences granted under this Act throughout India or any part thereof."

2. What about person having a Multi State/ All India validity and there is an Election or Riots in one state,

There have been a number of judgments by High Courts allowing citizens to keep arms during elections. I provide a few links:
http://www.indiankanoon.org/doc/1616396/
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/no-ne ... c/489468/0
http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... ms/449732/
In case of riots, immediate danger to life and limb is from unlawful elements, in comparison the depositing of arms by law abiding citizens becomes a minor or rather a non issue. Such orders can be easily contested in courts if one is able to come out alive after the riots are over.

[Maruthy41]

The Govt. invariably clamps a blanket ban on all licnese weapon holders during elections atleast two months prior and later,and asks the people to deposit the weapons in the respective police stations, under a misconceived notion that there is likelyhood of their being abused. It is to be rembembered that the very purpose of obtaining the license itself is vitiated since that is the time when it is needed more for protection as all unruly hooligans will be at large and the self and property are more exposed to risk. Secondly all of us know that the offences committed with licensed weapons is almost nill when compared to the offences committed by unlicensed weapons, for the simple reason, that the persons who posesse the weapon do not dare kill a person or abuse the same for fear of deterrent punishment and thinks of the Law of the Land and other consequences, while the criminal is apt to abuse it as duck takes to water. The Election commission should have a rationalistic approach in this blanket ban and exempt the people who are in no way connected to the elections,like the ordinary citizens,senior citizens especially,who have neither criminal track, nor political activity like the contesting the elections, as they are taken care of by the govt. There are a plethora of decissins that the weapons should not be taken as a matter of fact but they are observed more in their breach as the District authorities force all the people to deposit them showing the code of conduct has come into force once the elections have been announced, which is very ridiculous. Further even in the unlikely event of the licensed weapon holder abusing the weapon there are umpteen number of Laws to take deterrent action against him. Every time we cannot go and file the writ petition to get back our weapons which costs quite a lot and that too only after the announcement we can approach the court and it takes long time before it is decided. Hence hereafter the blanket band should not be clamped.

[goodboy_mentor]

Every time we cannot go and file the writ petition to get back our weapons which costs quite a lot

It is very true, one cannot always run to High Court for filling a writ frequently as it costs time and money. Until things improve, alternate option is to file a writ without an advocate as "Party in person" or be in touch with all arms license holders in your District/State(IFG is a good place to find arms license holders in your District/State) and pool money together, hire a lawyer and file writ in High Court collectively. Law is nothing but strong reason and logic put in a codified form. There is plenty of legal material available on the internet as well as IFG to write a well drafted/reasonable/logical case. In my opinion Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental right acknowledged by our Constitution, the State cannot disarm people at the drop of the hat. I have tried to explain in detail about RKBA being a fundamental right as well as how other fundamental rights get affected if RKBA is affected at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 15#p117785

Moreover there have been High Court rulings wherein authorities have been directed to form a screening committee and find out potential trouble makers and only ask the "potential troublemakers" to deposit arms.

and that too only after the announcement we can approach the court and it takes long time before it is decided.

Do not deposit arms immediately the moment such an order is given, instead immediately approach High Court making it your fundamental rights issue by applying a writ under Article 226 of Constitution. Once the elections are over, it hardly matters since you have not deposited arms and let the High Court take its time to pronounce verdict.

[Anand]

After getting to know that the local MLC elections are coming upon 13/03/2011, yesterday I went to meet the DCP to ask for an exemption from having to deposit my firearms as a member of NRAI. I was discouraged immediately by the arms clerk and another staffer who told me why don't you apply at the Commissioner's Office and when I said I had gotten an exemption previously from the DCP itself, they said "sir that was then, and the DCP was "so and so", now things are different, this officer is very strict". I was "encouraged" to apply at the CoP's office again.

I said I would speak to the officer all the same, and then if he disagrees then I would have to go to the CoP's office anyway. Once I went in the officer's attitude was not very pro as expected, but he listened to all I had to say about how the Election Commission's order of deposit of arms of only those making " trouble" was being misused and blanket deposit orders given causing inconvenience to every one. He said "you may be a member of NRAI but you will still have to deposit the arms, then I drew his attention to the Election Commissions exemption that I had attached to my letter, and then he said "yes but this is from 1996", then I drew his attention to the next page that the exemption was for that and all elections,so he wrote on my letter "what is the rule position?" and signed it and said "please wait outside I will look into it".

After a few minutes the clerk was called in, and the "rule clarified" I guess, a minute later I was called in,he said "you will have to deposit", then I said I was given an exemption earlier also, so he said "okay but what is there to give?" I said "Sir the constable will come around and keep bothering me, so he said "yes there will be a case filed", to which I said," why go that far sir, your office had given me an exemption letter in 2009, a copy of which I had also attached, he saw that and checked with the clerk, and then said alright give him the exemption. As I was leaving I remembered my application for the 4th firearm a .22 rifle and told him about it and that I had applied more than a year ago and he asked how many competitions I participated in, to which I said none, and the law is clear on that participation is not required and I could bring him the Law and show it, he said "not necessary" and said he would follow it up.

I collected the exemption today and the clerk says "sir you are the first one to get any work done under him"
So that was that. While I could have gone to Court once and for all, I had two concerns: 1. That I had already complied with deposit orders before and then later, had gotten an exemption in 2009 and was not sure if I was now eligible to seek the court's interference.
2. There is a wedding in my family and the latest date for deposit is on the 05/03/2011, so there was a concern for time and running around.
So I took that path of least resistance
Anand

[Virendra S Rathore]

Good outcome, ain't it ?
Congratulations, very well done.

Regards,
Virendra

[Priyan]

Kinda off-topic but why do we, the legal owners have to deposit our firearms on election time? Today I read in newspaper that there are 11 registered firearms (6 long guns and 5 pistol) are in our district and authority are collecting them to deposit. I was wondering why they takes away the firearms during election as guns can be needed any time for self defense. Too bad we live in a democratic country and equality is still a dream....

[goodboy_mentor]

People have to fight for their rights, nobody offers the rights on a plate. Those who went to High Court, they have got favorable judgments others are meekly submitting. Only those who want to help themselves can be helped.

[dr.jayakumar]

now i have to run pillar to post to retain my guns during election,a big headache to convince the officials.grrrrr

[sat]

As I was leaving I remembered my application for the 4th firearm a .22 rifle and told him about it and that I had applied more than a year ago and he asked how many competitions I participated in, to which I said none, and the law is clear on that participation is not required and I could bring him the Law and show it,

Anand,

Could you post a link to the rule which allows nrai members to apply for 4th firearm, a 22 rifle.

Many thanks

sat

[sa_ali]

As I was leaving I remembered my application for the 4th firearm a .22 rifle and told him about it and that I had applied more than a year ago and he asked how many competitions I participated in, to which I said none, and the law is clear on that participation is not required and I could bring him the Law and show it, he said "not necessary" and said he would follow it up.

This encouraging me too to apply it, In delhi we have to write an application giving reason for the arm addition, now i am thinking of mentioning the constitution and article no in that application itself . What do you gurus

[goodboy_mentor]

I do not think it is any use writing about Constitution and Article numbers in license application, they are not courts. If the reason was given as self defense in your previous application, you may give the same reason again. If they ask for some "special" reason for additional firearm, you may explain them politely that keeping 3 firearms is your legal right as per Arms Act 1959 and show them the following judgment of Allahabad High Court confirming the same http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 89#p113930 If you note in the judgment Allahabad High Court was of the following opinion:

Thus the acquiring and possessing of more than one arm is not prohibited. On the other hand, it is permitted. From the perusal of Section 3 of the Act, it appears that it does not provide that for acquiring a licence for the second arm, the applicant has to disclose some special reason.

If your application is still rejected, be mentally and monetarily prepared to fight in High Court. In High Court you may explain you position with full logic and reason, citing Articles 19 and 21 of Constitution.

[mundaire]

Anand,

Could you post a link to the rule which allows nrai members to apply for 4th firearm, a 22 rifle.

Many thanks

sat

Sat, it's not just NRAI members, but members of ANY member of a rifle club or rifle association licensed or recognised by the Central Government. The relevant Section of the Arms Act 1959 is Section 3 (3) when read along with Section 3 (2). Posting the entire Section 3 along with sub-sections for reference.

3. Licence for acquisition and possession of fire-arms and ammunition.-

1*[(1) No person shall acquire, have in his possession, or carry any firearm or ammunition unless he holds in this behalf a licence issued in accordance with the provisions of this Act and the rules made thereunder:
Provided that a person may, without himself holding a licence, carry any firearm or ammunition in the presence, or under the written authority, of the holder of the licence for repair or for renewal of the licence or for use by such holder.

2*[(2) Notwithstanding anything contained in sub-section (1), no person, other than a person referred to in sub-section (3), shall acquire, have in his possession or carry, at any time, more than three firearms:
Provided that a person who has in his possession more firearmsthan three at the commencement of the Arms (Amendment) Act, 1983, may retain with him any three of such firearms and shall deposit, within ninety days from such commencement, the remaining firearms with the officer in charge of the nearest police station or, subject to the conditions prescribed for the purposes of sub-section (1) of section 21, with a licensed dealer or, where such person is a member of the armed forces of the Union, in a unit armoury referred to in that subsection.

(3) Nothing contained in sub-section (2) shall apply to any dealer in firearms or to any member of a rifle club or rifle
association licensed or recognised by the Central Government using a point 22 bore rifle or an air rifle for target practice.

(4) The provisions of sub-sections (2) to (6) (both inclusive) of section 21 shall apply in relation to any deposit of firearms under the proviso to sub-section (2) as they apply in relation to the deposit of any arm or ammunition under sub-section (1) of that section.

Till 1983 Section 3 was limited to what is now Section 3(1). However, vide an amendment (Act 25 of 1983) sub-sections 2 through 4 were added to this section thus limiting the number of arms an individual could legally own.

HTH

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[Anand]

Thanks Abhijeet you beat me to it! If NAGRI could just have those sections removed so that we have no limit on the number of arms and the quantity of ammo that would be fantastic!
Regards,
Anand

[sa_ali]

quantity of ammo that would be fantastic!
Regards,
Anand

Do we have any law for the quantity of Ammo also, as there is no standard till now. Some state give 25, some 100, some 5:)