IOF PISTOL AUTO 9mm 1A

[mundaire]

Threads merged... Members are requested not to start fresh threads on existing topics, but in stead post on the same (older) thread.

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[cottage cheese]

IFG Brethren, I find this statement confusing; can anyone cast some light?

A Personal and special service weapon capable of semi-automatic fire. It is a recoil operated, magazine fed, self-loading pistol in which the breech is positively locked at the moment of firing. It is not fully automatic. The trigger has to be pressed and released for each shot. When all the cartridges have been fired and the magazine is empty, the mechanism is held in the open position by the action of the slide.

My question is: If IOF states it's Personal then why don't civilians gain an access to it?

Well... you can be happy they didn't add 'State of Art' and the fact that it shoots bullets from a tubular shaped barrel

[penpusher]

Well... you can be happy they didn't add 'State of Art' and the fact that it shoots bullets from a tubular shaped barrel

....the barrel is rifled and sold along with the pistol at no extra cost

[TenX]

IFG Brethren, I find this statement confusing; can anyone cast some light?

A Personal and special service weapon capable of semi-automatic fire. It is a recoil operated, magazine fed, self-loading pistol in which the breech is positively locked at the moment of firing. It is not fully automatic. The trigger has to be pressed and released for each shot. When all the cartridges have been fired and the magazine is empty, the mechanism is held in the open position by the action of the slide.

My question is: If IOF states it's Personal then why don't civilians gain an access to it?

Guess what they mean is that a 'Personal' weapon is one that is carried on person, especially for one's one defense and safety. However, since it is not available to all civilians, other than Dhoni and such, it should be VIPersonel

[hvj1]

Regarding the IOF 9mm pistol:
Having extensively fired the Beretta 92F (above 10000 rnds) and the IOF pistol even more extensively (above 30000 rnds) and after using pistols of different origins, Swiss, German etc the conclusions are as follows;
1. Finish, quality of gun smithing, superior use of materials technology , ALL leading to high quality performance, EMANATES from one source alone - 'PRIDE' in the product you make. To cite a few examples
A) Lothar Walther (son of Carl Walther) set up his factory for the manufacture of gun barrels in 1925. Today 80% of all competition weapons have Lothar Walther barrels! Such is the 'pride' of the German techies at the Walther factory, that gun barrels which would serve extremely well in sporting weapons are summarily rejected if they dont match up to the extremely high standards set. These barrels are taken and SMASHED under a hammer and sent for remelting!. Compared with the standards (or non-standards) of the IOF products, a Walther techi would advise the IOF to take all their products to the hammer!
B) TheSamurai sword manufacturer makes his sword, as if his very life depended on it. For a Samura believes that his 'soul' resides in his sword. So also the sword maker, a strip of steel is heated and pounded, then folded and refolded almost 30 times to remove air pockets (as these would weaken the blade). Then two seperate layers of clay is applied to the blade - one on the cutting edge and the next layer on the trailing edge or the body of the sword. Gradual cooling (quenching) leads to the cutting edge being hard (to retain the sharpness) and the body remains flexible to absorb impact.
Can we compare this kind of dedication and commitment at the IOF. For sure there must be some gunsmiths who would love to lavish attention to the product, but they have to toe the babu's line, which is -Arre bhai sab chalta hai, maal khapta hai, log kharid rahe hai, kiseeko takleef hai? to jao... gullel kharido.
C) Are you aware that the .22 KF Khadki Firemunitions factory, manufactures the .22 round on machines used by Eley? The people from Eley set up shop for them. Well fire a group of .22 KF and Eley ammo, th results are there see. That is because of the difference in 'PRIDE", At Eley, they take great pains to maintain their name and reputation. Prey! Can we say the same of the KF or IOF. IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO PRIDE.
Hence IOF pistols will continue to be faulty, the ammo will contnue to misfire, the MIGs will continu to crash. And the Politicians and Babus will continue to maintain status quo!And you and I will continue bashing away on this forum.

[lionheartguru]

@ hvj1

fantastic fantastic simply fantastic

those last 2 sentence are worth being praised to typed at the right place and at the right time for the right reason...
afssos ... we indians dont like to take inituative !!!
all we do here is talk talk and talk thats it...!

stop thinking start doing...

[hvj1]

Lionheartguru

[ravi.sharma]

Hey HVJ1 and Lion heart,

Well said Direct Dil Se, i don't know how i missed this one.


Ravi.

[hvj1]

Ravi

[rpm148]

Attach a laser sight if you have one and zero that. Handgun sights cannot be adjusted or zeroed in most models. Shoot at a target in a range at 10 m and see how a 5 shot clip groups. Mind you a 9 mm Luger or other 9 mm guns are not easy to control. If not a match grade pistol a casual shooter is likely to encounter at least 8 inch groups initially from a short barreled pistol ( 3 to 4 inch barrels ). Post pictures of the group. Aim at 6 O clock and shoot stedely with mental concentration. Use both hands to grip first few weeks.

Actually, with the Hi Power design, the sights are adjustable. I'm speaking from the west, and my hi-power is manufactured by Browning/FN Herstal, and as such is a single action only pistol. However, The types of sights on this handgun were designed to be adjustable intentionally. This was designed to be a high capacity (hence the name hi-power--not because of the power of the 9mm cartridge). Some of the older style hi-power sights are fully adjustable for windage and elevation; these can lose their zero after many rounds (even as few as 50). Mine is a MKIII model, "fixed sights" though the rear sight is adjustable for windage. I do find that taking a 6 o clock sight picture helps, but I don't believe that 9mm is difficult to control, with enough practice. Practice is key, and I'm not sure how easily available ammunition is in India, but the more you shoot, the more comfortable you become. One poster mentioned having 20000 rds down a hi power--i'm jealous! The hi power is one of the most accurate pistol designs--the additional weight (compared to a polymer pistol such as a glock) helps with stability and recoil control. Additionally, because the barrel axis is low, the majority of the recoil is transmitted directly through your entire arm instead of causing the muzzle of the gun to flip upward.

I do occasionally practice shooting one-handed, but that's only to be used in case I don't have the use of both hands. God gave us two hands, use them both, and provide additional stability. The goal is to hit your target accurately every time, not look like an action movie hero by trying to shoot a large calibre pistol with one hand. I prefer the weaver stance, but many of my fellow shooters prefer the isoscles stance. Pick which one works for you, and practice both with live ammunition and empty gun exercises. That's just my personal opinion.

One other thing to consider with regards to trigger pull is some basic gunsmithing. The original design included a magazine disconnect safety, which means the gun cannot be fired without a magazine in the magwell, even if there is a round in the chamber and the safety lever is off. This can be removed with some simple gunsmithing. Mr. Stephen A. Camp has an excellent website called hi powers and handguns. You can look him up on google. I hope this information was helpful. As a first generation indian american, it is interesting for me to discuss guns with my brothers in the motherland.

[xl_target]

Attach a laser sight if you have one and zero that. Handgun sights cannot be adjusted or zeroed in most models. Shoot at a target in a range at 10 m and see how a 5 shot clip groups. Mind you a 9 mm Luger or other 9 mm guns are not easy to control. If not a match grade pistol a casual shooter is likely to encounter at least 8 inch groups initially from a short barreled pistol ( 3 to 4 inch barrels ). Post pictures of the group. Aim at 6 O clock and shoot stedely with mental concentration. Use both hands to grip first few weeks.

Most modern handguns put out by reputable manufacturers can be zeroed. Most of today's handguns excepting some of the sub-compacts allow their sights to be drift adjusted or replaced so the gun can shoot to the point of aim. Most 9mm handguns manufactured today can group from two to four inches at 10 meters. Most 9mm handguns are very controllable and can be shot with ease even by a novice, even the lighter polymer framed ones. Shooting factory 9mm ammunition is not even objectionable in the sub-compact pistols.
I have never fired the IOF 9mm auto pistol (so I cannot talk about that) but the FN and Argentine produced Hi-power's are generally reasonably accurate. For any duty type pistol chambered in 9mm, two to four inch groups at 10 meters should not be out of the question.

-- Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:00 pm --

Attach a laser sight if you have one and zero that. Handgun sights cannot be adjusted or zeroed in most models. Shoot at a target in a range at 10 m and see how a 5 shot clip groups. Mind you a 9 mm Luger or other 9 mm guns are not easy to control. If not a match grade pistol a casual shooter is likely to encounter at least 8 inch groups initially from a short barreled pistol ( 3 to 4 inch barrels ). Post pictures of the group. Aim at 6 O clock and shoot stedely with mental concentration. Use both hands to grip first few weeks.

Most modern handguns put out by reputable manufacturers can be zeroed. Most of today's handguns excepting some of the sub-compacts allow their sights to be drift adjusted or replaced so the gun can shoot to the point of aim. Most 9mm handguns manufactured today can group from two to four inches at 10 meters. Most 9mm handguns are very controllable and can be shot with ease even by a novice, even the lighter polymer framed ones. Shooting factory 9mm ammunition is not even objectionable in the sub-compact pistols.
I have never fired the IOF 9mm auto pistol (so I cannot talk about that) but the FN and Argentine produced Hi-power's are generally reasonably accurate. For any duty type pistol chambered in 9mm, two to four inch groups at 10 meters should not be out of the question.

[target shooter]

Ah deleted..

[boris]

Regarding the IOF 9mm pistol:
Having extensively fired the Beretta 92F (above 10000 rnds) and the IOF pistol even more extensively (above 30000 rnds) and after using pistols of different origins, Swiss, German etc the conclusions are as follows;
1. Finish, quality of gun smithing, superior use of materials technology , ALL leading to high quality performance, EMANATES from one source alone - 'PRIDE' in the product you make. To cite a few examples
A) Lothar Walther (son of Carl Walther) set up his factory for the manufacture of gun barrels in 1925. Today 80% of all competition weapons have Lothar Walther barrels! Such is the 'pride' of the German techies at the Walther factory, that gun barrels which would serve extremely well in sporting weapons are summarily rejected if they dont match up to the extremely high standards set. These barrels are taken and SMASHED under a hammer and sent for remelting!. Compared with the standards (or non-standards) of the IOF products, a Walther techi would advise the IOF to take all their products to the hammer!
B) TheSamurai sword manufacturer makes his sword, as if his very life depended on it. For a Samura believes that his 'soul' resides in his sword. So also the sword maker, a strip of steel is heated and pounded, then folded and refolded almost 30 times to remove air pockets (as these would weaken the blade). Then two seperate layers of clay is applied to the blade - one on the cutting edge and the next layer on the trailing edge or the body of the sword. Gradual cooling (quenching) leads to the cutting edge being hard (to retain the sharpness) and the body remains flexible to absorb impact.
Can we compare this kind of dedication and commitment at the IOF. For sure there must be some gunsmiths who would love to lavish attention to the product, but they have to toe the babu's line, which is -Arre bhai sab chalta hai, maal khapta hai, log kharid rahe hai, kiseeko takleef hai? to jao... gullel kharido.
C) Are you aware that the .22 KF Khadki Firemunitions factory, manufactures the .22 round on machines used by Eley? The people from Eley set up shop for them. Well fire a group of .22 KF and Eley ammo, th results are there see. That is because of the difference in 'PRIDE", At Eley, they take great pains to maintain their name and reputation. Prey! Can we say the same of the KF or IOF. IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO PRIDE.
Hence IOF pistols will continue to be faulty, the ammo will contnue to misfire, the MIGs will continu to crash. And the Politicians and Babus will continue to maintain status quo!And you and I will continue bashing away on this forum.

very nice things said ,sir.

-- Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:04 pm --

hvj1 sir,were you with the army??

[indiaone]

Recently I had the opportunity to fire 10 rounds from a Baretta 9mm pistol. The gun was a little heavy for my small hand, so I had to use both hands to keep the gun stable. It was very smooth and the results at 25 mtrs was quite good according to the experts who were supervising my firing practice. I tried to upload the pictures but was unable to do so. Therefore, I am sending the link of picasa. If any member is able to see the pictures do kindly confirm.

I am told the I O F 9mm is also based on this same model, so it will be quite impressive in its performance I presue.


copy and paste the following into your browser:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir? ... feat=email

[xl_target]

Congratulation Indiaone. It looks like all 10 rounds were on the paper.

Looking at your photos, I really cringed when I saw the Indian Officer with his finger on the trigger and his entire hand over the muzzle. He broke all four of the gun safety rules!
By the way, nice clear photos.

The IOF 9mm is not based on the Beretta 92 series of pistols. It is an attempt to copy the Inglis (Canadian) version of the Browning Hi-Power and apparently, a very poor attempt.
The Browning Hi-Power, which is a single action pistol is quite different from the Beretta 92 which is a Double action/Single Action pistol. The Hi-Power's hammer must be cocked manually or the pistol cannot fire. The Beretta's hammer can be cocked with the trigger.

You did mention that the Beretta was too big for you to hold with one hand. It is accepted practice to hold a modern full sized semi-automatic pistol with two hands. Bullseye shooters may still go at it one handed. However, for most combat shooting events, two hands are used. It gives stability and quick recovery from recoil.

Please see the video below. This is generally the accepted way of holding a pistol for most shooters of combat type events. Once mastered, it is very easy and fast to deploy and use.
[youtube][/youtube]