Please Advise RE Indian Gun Scene

[pardes]

First let me say that i am familiar with india but unfamiliar with the indian gun scene so what i say will likely be ignorant . It is hopefully to get some insight that i post.
The indian press says india is awash with illegal guns and that over half the worlds illegal guns are to be found in india and that guns can easily be picked up for a few thousand rupees. However the ads i have seen for guns the price is massive , like 7lacs for a glock 9mm equivalent to 15 thousand us dollars. The same gun in the us is freely available for under $500. The media reports ammunition in india selling for about 200 rupees per bullet or about $4 usd whereas in the states say 20 cents per bullet.
So my query is what is the gun situation in india - cheap guns everywhere as sensationalised by the media or scarce and overpriced that it appears to me.
This quandry might make me consider trying to import a gun from the us but my better judgement warns me that this might rapidly degenerate into a cohen brothers movie script with me ending up forgotten in an indian jail.


Sources
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/indi ... trol-crime
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009 ... s-to-rise/

[Sakobav]

pardes

Welcome aboard do post your introduction in proper section so members can get acquainted better..conduct some more research for your answers..to begin with 9mm is prohibited bore in India so no lic for it. Majority of guns are in .32 acp/calibre..import on guns is banned. Yes you can take one gun to India but only with your transfer of residence..Do post often and do you own any guns in USA?

Cheers

[xl_target]

The information you are looking for would depend on your situation.
Are you an Indian citizen returning to India under a Transfer of Residence? Are you a foreign national coming to India for a temporary stay? etc.

If it concerns a gun, there are many different rules that may apply. If you could provide more information, it would help in pointing you in the right direction.

[pardes]

Thanks for the replies. Ngrewal - if i had researched i would have gathered that 9mm is prohibited. But my main point would remain which is that (regardless of the legality) is india awash with cheap guns as portrayed by the media or is the reality that there is a supply of country guns that are just as likely to take your hand of as hit your target but that good stuff is scarce and very very expensive.
I dont own any guns in the us. I have no need at all. Any use i do at gun ranges. If i ever needed a gun then obviously a gun could be accessed. If the law ever prospectively looked like changing then i would go out and buy 10 while i still could but till then i i have absolutely no need.
Thanks for your reply xl_target. I qualify for pio but have never taken it up. Ive spent probably 10 of the last 30 years in india. I would never really consider importing a gun. Just dosnt seem a good idea. Ive imported other goods and the assidousness of the customs house woudnt incourage me to import anything let alone a gun.
I just wanted to get an informed perspective on guns (availability) in india cos the prices ive seen are insanely high and contradict with the picture painted by the media.

[dr.jayakumar]

pardes,you should spent some time and read our earlier posts in 'legal eagle',most of your questions will have answers.first if you want to import,you have to own a gun legally in us,may be .32acp pistol for a year and then a change of residence to india MAY allow you to bring that particular gun ALONE.too confusing isn;t it?easier said.

[pardes]

We seem to be getting sidetrack by the importing a gun idea, presumably due to my flippant throwaway final comment. Please no more replies regarding issues to do with importing a gun to india. .
My query
The indian press says india is awash with illegal guns and that over half the worlds illegal guns are to be found in india and that guns can easily be picked up for a few thousand rupees. However the ads i have seen for guns the price is massive - x lac rupees for 2nd hand gun. The media reports ammunition in india selling for about 200 rupees per bullet or about $4 usd whereas in the states say 20 cents per bullet.
So my query is re the gun situation in india - (regardless of the legality) is india really awash with cheap guns as portrayed by the media or is the reality that there is a supply of country guns that are just as likely to take your hand of as hit your target but that good stuff is scarce and very very expensive.
No answers about the law , licences or regulations just what the reality is like on the ground. Im curious cos ive seen plenty of guns in india but prices for anything of interest seem to be silly money and everything in india is cheap so presumably guns should be as well.

[Oggie]

Pardes : I'd be really interested to read the media article that states half the world's illegal guns are to be found in India. If true that would really surprise me ! Please could you refer me to this article/news report that you have based your question on ?

[pardes]

Hi Oggie
I do actually quote a couple of sources in my initial post.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/indi ... trol-crime
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009 ... s-to-rise/
"According to the International Action Network on Small Arms, Amnesty International and Oxfam, India accounts for about 40 million of the 75 million illegal small arms currently in circulation."
My query is if this is true then why is anything good so massively expensive.

[dr.jayakumar]

my dear friend,illegal guns are really cheap compared to legal ones.i still have'nt got what excatly you want or intend to.in 1986 import of weapons by the civilians was banned(god knows for what reason).so the only good imported guns are those that where imported prior to this ban.and the indian make iof ashani pistol is a copy of 1903 colt and there is a long waiting list to accquire this handgun.so,the imported guns which are in circulation are in great demand and so the price naturally is hitting the roof.well,for a law abiding citizen its costly and for a criminal its cheap.i hope i made some sense.

[pardes]

Thanks for the informative reply jaya my dear friend. Fundamentally i coudnt understand how a secondhand glock 9mm could sell (or at least the seller be asking) for 7 lacs. I appreciate supply and demand but you can buy an apartment for this in bombay. This is a lot of money.
Incidentally - I assumed/assume that this gun is/was legal even though ngrewal has previously pointed out that the 9mm caliber is prohibited i have no knowledge of the legal aspects , before or after 1986 etc but i assume/assumed legal. Legal or illegal its a lot of money.
Additionally the media tells us that guns are plentiful and cheap. 7 lacs is not cheap it is very expensive. But i think im getting the impression that it is basic supply and demand , the supply of quality is very low and the price is consequently high whereas the supply of country made equipment is plentiful and consequently cheap. But still 7 lacs has some explaining to do. I doubt anyone reading this has ever paid anything like that for a gun. To be honest it quiet disuaded me from investigating further about buying anything.

[goodboy_mentor]

So my query is re the gun situation in india - (regardless of the legality) is india really awash with cheap guns as portrayed by the media or is the reality that there is a supply of country guns that are just as likely to take your hand of as hit your target but that good stuff is scarce and very very expensive.

All manner of "illegal" arms including country made, foreign made smuggled into India(prices vary as per the quality, demand and supply of arms in the area) are available. Prices can be as low as Rs 250 for a disposable country made firearm(which criminals usually prefer for obvious ease of disposing such cheap arms after committing crime) to couple of thousand rupees for arms like AK 47s. There have been media reports of Maoists manufacturing AKs 47s, SLRs, bolt action rifles etc. in their clandestine factories.

No answers about the law , licences or regulations just what the reality is like on the ground. Im curious cos ive seen plenty of guns in india but prices for anything of interest seem to be silly money and everything in india is cheap so presumably guns should be as well.

Prices for legal arms have been artificially inflated by Government due to absurd "regulations". Since the only legal manufacturer of firearms with rifled barrels in India is Indian Ordnance Factory and the import of firearms is on restricted list of EXIM Policy, IOF has the monopoly of pricing its firearms as high it wants. Since import of firearms is on restricted list of EXIM Policy since around 1986, those who have these pre 1986 "foreign made" firearms sell them at astronomical prices.

I'd be really interested to read the media article that states half the world's illegal guns are to be found in India. If true that would really surprise me !

Most of such stories are planted by anti gun organizations having vested interests to fool the ignorant people, with main aim is to create a hype, sensation and panic among people. Also the media is usually eager and happy to publish any information that can create a sensation. When some organization claims that "half the world's illegal guns" are to be found in India, question arises that how they have reached this conclusion? Were they first able to accurately determine what is the real number of "illegal" guns all over the world?

Moreover if the cost of "legal" arms is artificially inflated by Government to make the cost beyond reach of common people, they are left with no choice except to go for cheap "illegal" arms for self defense. Since India has almost 1.2 billion people, "illegal" arms numbering a few million should not be surprising.

But still 7 lacs has some explaining to do. I doubt anyone reading this has ever paid anything like that for a gun.

As mentioned earlier since import of firearms is on restricted list of EXIM Policy since around 1986, and IOF has a monopoly in legal arms market, those who have these pre 1986 "foreign made" firearms sell them at astronomical prices. Please understand that at present, it is a seller's market, hence there is no yardstick to determine the fair price of "foreign made" firearms. If you doubt that if anyone has paid Rs 7 lacs for a gun, a .357 Magnum Desert Eagle was sold for around Rs 35 lacs.(Reference: http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 94#p119386)

[pardes]

Whoa for 35 lacs were looking at 2 bedrooms in a better part of town.
Thanks for the reply goodboy_mentor - straightforward and informative. Its good to get some basic points confirmed.
Obviously anything the media says should be taken with a pinch of salt but i guess there is at least some truth in it.
Presumably the 2k for an ak is for a replica item manafactured somewhere in india/se asia , a copy but still functional. For 2k rupees that seems like value , quite a contrast with the 35 lacs. Staying with replica items manafactured somewhere in india/se asia. The media reports chinese weapons (original and copies) gravitating there way to east india. An ak is an assalt rifle, does anyone know what are the principal small arms copied/manafactured in india/se asia.

[mundaire]

I see you are posting from Thailand, what's the gun scene like over there?