Shotgun info required

[eljefe]

HI All,
Is it true that all 12 bore ammo available in India-Indian manufactured- is 2.75 inch , while most older shotguns are chambered for 2.5 inch ?
What about the low cost single barrels shotguns?are they chambered for the 2.75 inch ammo?
Am thinking of starting a small project with a 12-15K sbbl 12 shotgun -home defense version , mk1 -shorty bbl and thumbhole with a muzzle brake-and am suddenly worried bout overpressures and whether I'll need to tie it to a tractor and use a sand blanket in the best traditions of ballistics.Dont have access to 12 bore 'walker' chamber measure and forcing cone reamer, but until I get them in sep, any advice?
When it comes to shotguns, have been DUUUH,
best
Asif

[penpusher]

Hello Asif,

IOF manufactures 2.5"(65mm) and 2.75"(70mm) ammo.Most shotguns would have the chambers marked on the barrel/s along with the loads that they are prooved for.Saw a Savage SBBL chambered for 3" cart.Strange design.Opened up with an undelever.The barrel had however been choped off to about 20" or so.There are some shotguns in India that fire 2" cart and some that are prooved for black powder.Be sure about what you buy.Avoid a shotgun whose barrel has been polished to remove pits.The practise is to use sandpaper wrapped around a cleaning brush to polish the barrels.The barrel thus polished has imperfections and even dimples in the barrel.Would be highly dangerous to fire.

For 15,000/- you should be able to get a SBBL gun of a good make in a very good condition.A stock with a thumbhole would not be very handy.If you plan to change the stock why not try to get a gun in good working condition but with the stock cracked or broken.That would bring down the purchase price also.Try getting a recoil pad along with the other stuff from abroad.You could also try to get a shotgun sight that offers visibility in the dark(Truglo or the like)


Take care,
penpusher

[eljefe]

Thanks penpusher,
Yes, will be checking this thread many times a day. so keep them coming gentlemen, all your advice will be appreciated.
penpusher any brand names for a single 12, preferably with an exposed hammer?
Best
Axx

[mundaire]

I learnt how to shoot on a single barrel Indian make (I think it was a brand called Pioneer) shotgun. The choke was a true cylinder (basically means no choke), and it was a simple manually cocked hammered design.

What I recall about this very basic gun is that, it pointed really really well..!!! The trigger pull left a lot to be desired and the ejector tended to jam after every few hundred rounds or so, but hey - at that age I was just glad to have a real gun in my hands!

The point is, most Indian made single shotguns are fairly decent guns - for the money that is... They are usually rugged, easily repaired and dirt cheap to buy. And yes, almost all of the ones being made now are chambered for 70 mm rounds.

I did also have the chance to fire a single (shotgun) produced by gunsmiths from across the border and am sorry to inform the patriots here - it was lighter, had a much much better trigger pull, and overall seemed like a much better gun (even the quality of bluing was far far superior). In all fairness the Indian gun "pointed" better, but then that is something that depends so much on on stock and shooter dimensions that I really cannot commend or reprimand either gunsmith on that count.

Anyway, if you have a budget of 10-15k a good single isnt a bad bet - just depends on what use you have in mind for it... if you are just going to take it afield... then go for it! The lack of a second chance might just make you try and shoot better, it worked for me!!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[mehulkamdar]

Asif,

If you're looking at British guns, then chances are that it is either a 2.5" or a 2.75" gun. The British did make some 2" guns as light kicking guns for young people or ladies. The longer 3" and the recent 3.5" 12 bores are American waterfowling preferences.

If you buy a British gun, go to the Internet Gun Club and get it dated. They would be able to help you with it. Another very good forum is www.nitroexpress.com though they concentrate more on double and big bore rifles than on shotguns. You will find very few internal hammer BP guns though external hammer smokeless guns were made until WW-2 from what I have read.

I have no idea about the asking price but Amit Contractor, one of our members and a friend of mine in Chicago has a Greener gamekeeper's model shotgun for sale in Gujarat. It is not going to be very cheap but from the pics that I have seen it does look like it is in very good shape. You may want to contact him to ask about it. As a matter of fact, after baby No 2 Amit hasn't posted much at all. I thought he would have posted it in the for sale listings if he were free since he did do this on the old boards.

Cheers,

Mehul

[penpusher]

Asif,

The max no. of single barrel guns with an exposed hammer that I have seen are those made by Stevens/Savage, Belgium made & H&R.I have a Greener GP Martini-Henry action gun with a 32" barrel chambered for the 2.75" cart..Groups well but kicks like a mule ( I have never been kicked by a mule but if its anything like what my shoulder feels after a session with the Greener,I am very sure its not a very pleasant experience).The gun is in excellent condition and I paid 15,000/- for it.Though its not a fine gun in any way, but a lot of fun and cheap considering the price of firearms in India.They are not scarse and you might find one.I have seen a take down version also.They are not really popular because of the action and you might be able to get one for a lot less.The action is strong and would last you a lifetime.

Take care,
penpusher

[eljefe]

Thanks Abhijeet and Mehul and penpusher and all you IFG stalwarts.
Basic purpose is do a little 'smithing.Dont mind taking it out-and as Abhijeet says ,lack of 2nd shot might help develop long forgotten skills.
Want to be able to use it for home defense , so will be using reduced charge 2" loads-Was fascinated by a S.African pump which fired 2" loads, fed from the pistol grip magazine-kinda shop keepers special, but with LG equivalent: was devastating on paper and on a ill informed thug who broke into a mom &pop store run by a couple known to me in Stanger! Cant remember the name/model for the life of me...
Am kind of torn between modifying it with a shorter barrel, muzzle brake and keep it purely for home defense-not that I need it that badly(plans afoot toshift to new house in a very isolated part of noida in about 6 months...)Think its a winters-coming up-and -i need -a project -to keep- busy obsession
Have been eyeballing the shotguns which are so freely carried by all and sundry here and saw a nice piece carried by a bank guard-ATM, where else It had a shortish barrel and a scaled down stock, bright yellow wood will head down to ye local scalper's shop and check out what's on offer.
Actually am a bit scared of single 12.s-one time trying for a snipe in a field I was standing awkwardly on a small bund, 120kgs of me went sprawling in the muck-I'm 80 kgs now and can sympathise with penpusher and the mule thumper.
or , just open up the forcing cone , polish up the action and keep it as a shooter-what do I shoot-go up against Rathore and Co at Tughlakabad ?:evil:
Keep it coming folks!
Best
Axx

[mehulkamdar]

Asif,

Most shotguns sold to banks these days are made by Dwarka Gun Works in Bellary. I can give you Mr Yadav's contact details (the proprietor) if you like. He is a good friend of my family and a nice man. Some IFG members have talked to him in the past but they chose to buy used old British guns instead of the "bank guard" models made in Bellary.

Just let me know if you need an introduction.

Cheers,

Mehul

[eljefe]

Thansk Mehul,
Looks like you're going to help me make a decision and I am going to have a nice busy winter ahead!
Please do make the intro's -I would appreciate it very much.
When I get into shotgunning proper again, i would appreciate your help in finding a good shot gun.
If this gun survives the sand blanket test, will post snaps of whats left!
Thanks
Asif

[mehulkamdar]

Asif,

Mr Yadav's contact details are:

Mr G Lakshman Yadav
Proprietor
Dwarka ARms and Ammunition Mfg Co and
Himalaya Arms Mfg Co
Factory:
Satyanarayanpet
Bellary 583103
Showroom:
35/IV Bangalore Road
Bellary 583103

The phone numbers I have are old ones - you should be able to get the latest ones based on these:
Factory: (08392) 73532 and 76279
Showroom: 72250
Fax: 56301

Mr Yadav's family own more than 100 gun shops in the North - they are originally from Kanpur. You should be able to find someone near Delhi to get a gun from if you don;t want to go all the way to Bellary.

Tell him Hi from me when you talk to him.

Cheers,

Mehul

[penpusher]

Asif,

Another option that you can explore is getting a DB gun with exposed hammers.They are generally cheap.In the range of 15-17,000.The ones with barrels of 30'' or more are even cheaper.Get a Belgium made one.You wont feel guilty chopping off a part of the barrel of a cheap brand gun.Cut down the barrel to 20"(anythig less than 20" would be illegal and liable to land you in jail) ,shorten the stock and put on a silver bead on the rib and you have a gun that would handle well in the confined space of a room at about the price that you would pay for the Indian made junk.Another advantage of a hammered gun is that you don't have cocked hammers on loaded chambers.Have used hammered guns and own one, a WJ Jeffery handed down from my Grandfather.Maybe I am just partial to hammered guns, butI find them to be lighter than hammerless guns and somehow better handling too.Hammered guns in India are better value for money than hammerless ones anyway.

Take care,
penpusher

PS-I am very sure somebody would point out that hammered guns can also be expensive,but I am not talking about Purdy or any such brand or best quality guns from English or Continental gun makers.

[mehulkamdar]

penpusher,

Belgian hammer guns made by gunmakers like Le Forgeron, Pirotte etc could be very valuable in Europe or the USA these days. I would think hard before cutting a barrel down just to shorten it. It would, most certainly, remove the chokes and turn the gun into a cylinder bore and could also mess up the balance etc. 30" barrels on a shotgun are not a problem at all - the OAL would still be about the same as that of a 30-06 bolt rifle with 24" barrels. And it would handle a lot better.

In any case, if such a gun is available in good shape, it might be a very nice gun to buy. Do help Asif find one if you are aware of any that might be on sale.

Cheers,

Mehul

[eljefe]

penpusher and Mehul,
If I lay my hands on a double, hammerless or whatever, I am not going to desecrate it!
I'll instead open out the gun stock finish and cold rust kits I have and make it a different project...Used a bonehill 32" double hammer belonging to a school master, and it was a great gun to use.Learnt my early shot gunning on this Bonehill with the expert guidance of Mr.Mitchell, my scoutmaster and teacher from Baldwin's in Bangalore.Fond memories.
Thanks again, keep on posting-nothing's finalised yet, except the arms licence application, which I havent yet submitted.Am told it will not be a problem for a shottie, especially a single.Am sure can swing it for a double, if a good one comes my way!
Best
Axx

[eljefe]

PS: Whats the story about the IOF pumps? any info, user review, as bad as the rest of the stuff?
Axx

[Kshatriya]

An IOF PA revew would be great indeed.
Thx.

@Abhijeet
If u do not mind my asking,how did u come to own the .45 1911 ?