Your Concealed Carry and/or Home defense weapon

[penpusher]

Mark,

A more scientific method would be appreciated.Such as actually carrying out tests and then reaching a reasoned conclusion . For some,full body armor would be helpfull in ensuring that the final results are posted These are very serious queries and the answers essential to enable mankind to understand and therefore appreciate Hollywood action movies. It would also be helpfull in enabling all the budding John Rambo's to find out what they can do and what they can't

Take care,
penpusher

PS-I am going to be away for a month.Would give you sufficient time to do all the testing.

[Mark]

Aha, you want a scientific method.....

Well here I can answer at least 2 questions at once, regarding muzzle rise and how long a clip lasts.

I was at a police firearms familiarization course several years ago, and they had recently gotten an MP5. They were letting people shoot it with a full magazine. I was one, and muzzle rise wasn't bad at all. If anyone has ever worked with a 5 HP gas powered irrigation pump the rising force was less than holding a water hose at 3/4 throttle. This was with 9mm ammunition.

The next time I was at the range, there was a new set of bullet holes IN THE CEILING (actually they werent holes because the ceiling was concrete, but there was holes in the acoustical foam) Anyway the holes started above one target and extended half way back to the firing line. They had also set a new policy of only 10 rounds in the clip at a time.

We shot 2 jugs today, one at 100 yds and one at 50. Both jugs split, the closer one a bit more noticeably. I'll get the pictures posted tomorrow.

[Mack The Knife]

We shot 2 jugs today, one at 100 yds and one at 50. Both jugs split, the closer one a bit more noticeably. I'll get the pictures posted tomorrow.

Hi Mark,

Which rounds did you use?

Thanks.

Mack The Knife

[penpusher]

Mark,

Not the wimpy 9mm.I was talking about 7.62 (7.62 x39 or 7.62x51).Do it with the FN FAL or an AK full auto.

Take care,
penpusher

[eljefe]

First it was His majesty , king Rusty;now its God-to top it all he hasnt told his wife yet... do you really fish or just point at the water and get the 100 pounder mahseers to jump onto your lap where's John when we need him?
Great set of FAQ's Mark and penpusher-Must print them out and us them for future references-You forgot a major FAQ -"Why didnt you shoot him in the leg?"
With all that fear and adrenaline, I'm glad I didnt shoot myself in the leg-would be my presumptive reply.
When I carried the Walther , it was in an ankle hoslster-Uncle Mike.Now that I'm gun free, i prefer my friend rana's ultra hot chilly spray and a Spyderco Clip-it police model.Got in a Gerber armour Tanto and have a couiple of other folders, Kershaw and Buck-but that Police model is one smooth opener!
Best Guys
Thanks for a great read!
Axx

[Mack The Knife]

do you really fish or just point at the water and get the 100 pounder mahseers to jump onto your lap

Shhhh......

John is Grumpy on this forum.

[Kshatriya]

Mine are mentioned in my signature.
Both with standard IOF FMJs.
Cocked & locked.
Planning to get a 12 gauge PA by IOF,probably next year.
Any opinions about this piece ?

[mundaire]

What weapon (knife/gun) do you carry on your person?
What kind of ammunition do you use for carry purposes?
How is the weapon holstered?

What weapon do you use for home defense?
How accessible is it?

I don't really carry a gun on my person at all times... in India, who does??!! Hmmm, I guess there are security guards, gangsters, people threatened by gangsters, ordinary people living in Uttar Pradesh/ Bihar, politicians, real estate sharks... I take that back... there does seem to be a longish list of possibilities back there

However, when taking road trips, I tend to carry my .45 in the glove compartment. It's loaded with FMJ ammo and since .45 ACP ammo is not particularly easy to come by the brand is immaterial, one buys what one can get ones hands on!! I do use a shoulder holster in certain situations... Not that a 1911 is going to be very discreet even with a shoulder holster

I do NOT carry the .45 cocked as I personally would not set much store by all the safety catches in the world...

My Dad favours his .32 Smith & Wesson (small frame) revolver for similar road trips. He uses regular .32 IOF ball ammo.

For home defence I keep my .45 and Dad's M1 .30 carbine handy. Mine is kept in my room, with 2 loaded magazines kept in a separate drawer (one needs to take extra precautions when one has kids). The carbine is in Ma & Pa's room - once again the magazines are kept loaded but stored in a different location. I would imagine a best case scenario of being able to get to the .45 and have it ready for use in 30 seconds or less... ditto for the carbine. Worst case scenario - your guess is as good as mine...

Actually I would much rather use my shotgun instead of the carbine, it's a much better short range weapon and ideal for home defence BUT the Indian government in its wisdom has banned all buckshot ammo and we must make do with either ball, or birdshot.... birdshot might be good to scare people, and may deter a half hearted attack, but if you need to put down a determined assailant, it simply wont do and using ball shot takes away the biggest advantage of the shotgun as a self?defence weapon!

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[eljefe]

Abhijeet, big or small frame, an inside-the-waist holster carry was the most comfortable I found.Yes, you have to get trouser size 1-1 1/2" plus to accomodate a good holster though.Had a couple of instances where my walther fell into my trousers and had to be fished out after an impromptu strip tease session...no more tuck it in your pants after that.
Best
Axx

[penpusher]

Abhijeet,

Even No 6 at close range is pretty lethal. So don't discount the shotgun.
What ever you carry while travelling , always carry a back up weapon and never pee in the wind

Take care,
penpusher

[mehulkamdar]

Abhijeet,

A good tailor can make suits which conceal the fact that you're carrying a gun in a shoulder holster. The problem is that we hardly ever use suits in India and therein lies a problem...

penpusher,

Mark tells me that no man has ever been killed by being hit with No 6 shot, which is why it is the maximum size allowed for bird hunting in the USA. I would suggest using No 4s or No 2s instead and pointing at an attacker's head. I agree with Abhijeet that a shotgun could be the most devastating short range defensive firearm that a civilian could posses. And, when you take the lack of overpenetration etc, it would also be the safest as far as bystanders etc are concerned.

Cheers,

Mehul

[penpusher]

Mehul,

Considering the manner in which the local police operates and the way firearms use is viewed by the law and the Judiciary,I am very sure nobody wants to kill an intruder.I prefer to keep No 1 shot for home defense,if ever the need comes for that.I am very sure No 6 shot would more than tickle and the fellow shot with it .He would have a very enjoyable time getting all the pellets out of his skin. At close range,even the powder residues embed in the skin,pellets would obviously go much deeper.By close range,I mean a foot or so.The fact is that even te best shot in the world waking up suddenly to find an intruder in his room , would have a hard time hitting a target with a handgun.A shotgun is a much better bet.

I feel that a burgular alarm should be the first line of deffense.It's a misconception that many people harbor,that if somebody enters the house they would immediately get to know even when asleep.Some years ago,burgulars entered a house and dragged out a almirah to the verandha from a room where two people were asleep.They did not get to know and found out what had happened only in the morning.What good are all the guns if you sleep through a theft.

Take care,
penpusher

PS-Most thefts take place at night,during the early hours of the morning and at day time around 12 AM.

[cyrixoutside]

hi,

well at one foot the spread of the shot gun pellets is about 2 inches. So quite precise placements is necessary. Even at about 15 feet the spread of the pellets is about 6 - 10 inches wide only.

So at short ranges the shotgun is not better than rifle in the sense that it still need to be quite precisely aimed.



rajat

p.s - just try it at home if you have a large quantity of geliten or plasticine or even clay (anything that will absorbe the shot) and shoot into it at short ranges with a shotgun i.e from 1 - 15 feet an see how much spread you get.

[penpusher]

Rajat,

The shot spread at short ranges would depend on the length of the barrel and the choke.Still a better chance with a shotgun than with a rifle.The 2" circle would be completely covered with a shotgun but not so with a rifle.

Take care,
penpusher

[cyrixoutside]

hi,

spread of the pellets is not effected by lenght of barrel unless the barrel happens to be several meters long. So from 20 inches to 32 inches (the normal barrel lenghts) the lenght of barrel will make no differcee to the spread of the pellets. The spread of the pellets is not effected by gauge either.

The only thing the controls the spread of the pellets is the choke. The 2 inch spread that i mentioned is what you will get from a cylinder bore gun i.e with no choke. A gun with choke will produce even less spread.

All i am trying to point out is that at short range the advatnges of the shotgun is much reduced i.e you can not simply point it in a hurry at the direction of the intruder and expect to hit.

Of course since india we have a limit on fire arms per individual it is not practicle to get small light weight caliber in a medium power caliber and keep that weapon as a self defence only weapon. People want multi purpose weapons.

I have such a rifle, a winchester model 1894 in 32-40 caliber. Very handy to carry and very easy to shoot, it has very low recoil, so follow up shots are very easy and it has sufficent power as well.



rajat