India's own Charlton Hestons - NAGRI intl press coverage

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India's own Charlton Hestons - NAGRI intl press coverage

Post by mundaire » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:39 am

Here is some more coverage of NAGRI in the international media. It's a 3 part set of articles titled "Armed and Dangerous" :roll: needless to say there is a definite editorial skew on display, still the word is getting around and the actual content is largely balanced. Guess the editor was limited in how much he could toss things around? :P

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/indi ... ton-heston
India's own Charlton Hestons
A new lobby group modeled on America's NRA is pushing for Indians' right to bear arms.
By Jason Overdorf and Poh Si Teng - GlobalPost
Published: December 20, 2010 06:05 ET in Asia


Editor's note: "India: armed and dangerous" is a three-part series on India's rising gun culture, the proliferation of illegal weapons and the middle-class fight to bear arms. Jason Overdorf and Poh Si Teng researched this project with the aid of the South Asian Journalists' Association (SAJA) Reporting Fellowship.

NEW DELHI, India - At a posh farmhouse outside Delhi, a group of gun enthusiasts gathered on a recent Sunday afternoon to compare weapons, do a little shooting and talk strategy. Software professionals, executives and salesmen in their 30s and 40s, they're typical upper middle-class Delhiwallahs. Except for one thing: While liberal India bemoans the gun culture taking over its metropolitan cities, they're fighting to make sure one day every Indian gets the right to bear arms — American-style.

"Everyone’s life is precious. And everyone has the right to defend their life and liberty. And that right is meaningless without the means to do so," said Abhijeet Singh.

With some 40 million guns in civilian hands making India the second-most heavily armed nation in the world and a steady rise in violent crime, the debate over gun control is heating up. Gun control advocates are pushing India to crack down on guns and sign a United Nations Arms Trade Treaty that would tighten restrictions on small arms, while supporters of gun rights are fighting to make the country's gun laws less restrictive. And with both groups citing Gandhi as precedent, at stake is the very identity of India itself.

A 38-year-old software engineer, Singh founded the web forum, Indiansforguns.com, which brought these Sunday afternoon firearm fans together. But in late 2009, his hobby took on a new urgency when the home ministry proposed several amendments to India's 1959 Arms Act that would make it much more difficult to get a gun license and harder to buy ammunition. Already an old hand in disseminating editorials and raising petitions, Singh soon joined forces with another group — the National Association for Gun Rights India (NAGRI) — that's modeled on America's National Rifle Association and led by Haryana's Naveen Jindal, a member of parliament who studied in Texas.

"The National Rifle Association in America is the standard by which all gun owners judge themselves," said Rahoul Rai, NAGRI's semi-official spokesman. "Here is an organization that has protected the fundamental democratic right [to bear arms] which has withstood the test of time. Which has brought gun ownership not just to the United States but to the whole world. For us in India, this is the beacon of hope."

NAGRI held its first meeting in January 2010, and so far few police officials or politicians take the organization very seriously. But that dismissive attitude may be misguided. According to several estimates, there are hundreds of thousands, even millions of Indians waiting for stalled gun licenses or smarting over rejections. In some regions, the desire to own a firearm is great enough that the government population control program dangles the reward of a gun license to convince men to get a vasectomy. With people like these, NAGRI claims, it's already struck a chord.

"The response is overwhelming," said Rai. "From all the corners of India, people have been sending us emails, giving telephone calls and personally meeting us, supporting the cause. ... We are now trying in a lawful and peaceful manner to organize all this energy, organize all these feelings to tell our elected representatives that this [move to tighten licensing restrictions] is wrong."

Already, it's extremely difficult to get an arms license, though many of the existing hurdles are not enshrined in the 1959 Arms Act, and the Indian government has itself argued to the United Nations that India has one of the most stringent gun control regimes in the world. Apart from owners of heirloom weapons, citizens can obtain a license only if they are a competitive shooter or they can demonstrate an imminent threat to life and limb. Prices for legal guns and ammunition are among the highest in the world, due to import restrictions that give a near monopoly to government-owned ordnance factories — which weapons enthusiasts say make some of the worst products on the planet. Licensing bureaus can impose limits as low as five cartridges per year on legal purchases of ammunition. And if all else fails, there's always reams and reams of red tape.

"The whole process of applying for a gun licenses is very humiliating for most people, which is why people who have firearms also decide to sell them and not continue with the tradition of owning firearms in their family," said Singh. "Because it is just so difficult."

But with pressure from the U.N. and arms control advocates, a host of simmering guerrilla rebellions and growing concern over gunplay spilling into the streets, India's home ministry aims to make owning a gun even tougher.

This July, the prime minister's cabinet approved a proposal requiring a "verification report" from the police before a license could be issued. Several more amendments are on the anvil, such as requiring license holders to produce a record of when, where and why they fired their weapon anytime they want to buy replacement ammunition. The ministry's justification for these changes, naturally, is the increase in violent crime and the apparent proliferation of guns. But that's exactly the reason NAGRI says every law-abiding Indian deserves the right to carry a firearm himself.

"How then is the ordinary citizen going to protect himself?" said NAGRI's Rai. "How then is the ordinary citizen going to take care of his loved ones, of his family of his property? This is the reason why there is a need to have legitimate weapons."

With less than one officer per thousand people, India has one of the world's most understaffed police forces. And while it's true that a third of Indian districts are affected by terrorism and the crime rate is increasing, only a tiny fraction of that violence can be attributed to licensed guns. For instance, National Crime Records Bureau figures show that just 574 of 4,101 gun murders were committed with legal firearms in 2008 — while nearly 30,000 murders were committed with knives and other weapons. Moreover, only about 5.5 million of the 40 million odd guns in India are legal.

"If a guy can get [an illegal] katta for 200 [rupees], on what moral grounds can the government deny a law-abiding citizen a license for a gun on which he will blow a packet and [then face] all sorts of restrictions and encumbrances?" Singh said.

Gun control advocates say that the climbing crime graph is all the more reason to crack down further, and cite the U.S. crime data to prove that the most thoroughly armed nation is not the safest.

"We have to leave it to the state to tackle the security of every Indian," said Binalakshmi Nepram, head of the Control Arms Federation of India. "NAGRI and the Indians for Guns have to understand the fact that the independence of India was won without firing a single bullet. India gave the world non-violence. [It gave the world] Mahatma Gandhi the epitome of non-violence."

With America replacing Britain as India's primary cultural influence, rethinking India's colonial history may not be so simple, however. Perhaps because India's colonial revolution was achieved through nonviolence, the constitution written shortly after it does not specifically guarantee Indian citizens the right to bear arms.

But in at least one court case, a judge has ruled that "the right to bear arms is embedded in Article 21 of the Constitution," which states "No person shall be deprived of his life or personal liberty except according to procedure established by law."

And NAGRI and others point out that the Arms Act itself was not written to restrict the ownership of weapons. It was drafted to repeal British regulations that disarmed the general population after the Uprising, or Mutiny, of 1857 — of which Gandhi himself wrote, “Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.”

With that in mind, NAGRI stakes its own claim to the Mahatma's legacy.

"An armed society is a polite society," said Rai. "I think if people are armed, other people will think twice before attacking them. I think if a nation is armed other nations think twice before attacking them. This is how we get more ahimsa. This is how we get less lawlessness. This is how we get a better society."


This rather appropriate quote by Gandhi has been posted in one of the public comments (at the end of the article):

“He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

The attached video:


and the other two parts:

India: Illegal guns plague cities - Check out the quote by a very senior Delhi Police official right at the end

India: gun culture - and gun violence - on the rise

Do read the articles and please feel free to post your comments under each.

Cheers!
Abhijeet
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Re: NAGRI gets coverage in international press - again

Post by Risala » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:22 am

Excellent article.....very well researched & documented with a balanced view

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Re: NAGRI gets coverage in international press - again

Post by dr.jayakumar » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:20 am

mr.abhijeet,thanks a lot .what was that you fixed to the rifle at the muzzle end?just inquisitive.

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Re: NAGRI gets coverage in international press - again

Post by Anand » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:40 am

Pretty even coverage if you ask me, not the biased type of reporting that we are normally used to.
Anand

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Re: NAGRI gets coverage in international press - again

Post by mundaire » Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:25 pm

dr.jayakumar wrote:mr.abhijeet,thanks a lot .what was that you fixed to the rifle at the muzzle end?just inquisitive.
:lol: I was wondering when someone would ask that question! Answer: It's a home made slip on (plastic) muzzle weight, fabricated by the owner of the rifle, to "balance" the weight of the rifle - by adding a bit more of it to the front end. Though after testing it, we all agreed that it didn't really help much.

I hope everyone is taking the time to leave a comment or two on the three articles :)

Cheers!
Abhijeet
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Re: NAGRI gets coverage in international press - again

Post by amit888_2000 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:54 pm

very nice article...

)))cheers!!!

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Re: NAGRI gets coverage in international press - again

Post by OverUnderPump » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:03 pm

Nice article, better than most I'd say. It does highlight the legal vs illegal aspect that we stress on.
:cheers:

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Disclaimer: My post is either a question or a reply to one. I am stating an opinion. If my opinion differs from yours, It's not intended as an insult.

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Re: NAGRI gets coverage in international press - again

Post by dr.jayakumar » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:18 pm

mundaire wrote:
dr.jayakumar wrote:mr.abhijeet,thanks a lot .what was that you fixed to the rifle at the muzzle end?just inquisitive.
:lol: I was wondering when someone would ask that question! Answer: It's a home made slip on (plastic) muzzle weight, fabricated by the owner of the rifle, to "balance" the weight of the rifle - by adding a bit more of it to the front end. Though after testing it, we all agreed that it didn't really help much.

I hope everyone is taking the time to leave a comment or two on the three articles :)

Cheers!
Abhijeet
thanks Abhijeet ,i wouldn't have slept otherwise.

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Re: NAGRI gets coverage in international press - again

Post by mundaire » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:34 pm

dr.jayakumar wrote:thanks Abhijeet ,i wouldn't have slept otherwise.
Why is that Dr. Jayakumar, what's on your mind :?:

Cheers!
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Re: NAGRI gets coverage in international press - again

Post by goodboy_mentor » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:23 am

I agree that a slight editorial bias is there. I have put in my comments in all the three articles.
"We have to leave it to the state to tackle the security of every Indian," said Binalakshmi Nepram, head of the Control Arms Federation of India.
As usual CAFI and other self defense prohibitionists try their best to mislead and fool the people. Will Binalakshmi Nepram apply this logic to herself? If attacked by some rapist, does she mean to promise to do absolutely nothing for her self defence and "leave it to the State" to come and tackle her security?

These self defense prohibitionists choose not to inform the legal facts to everyone that:

1)The State is under no legal liability or obligation to protect individual citizens. The State is only protecting itself, the laws and the Constitution. If the State is providing "bodyguards" to some individuals, it is not for protecting those individuals, it is only for protecting the law. The State and the citizens are both equally responsible for protecting themselves, the law and the Constitution. Hence both are expected to be armed.

2)Constitution is the Supreme law of the country. All fundamental rights of the citizens and the State are guaranteed from Part III of the Constitution. If the citizens do not have RKBA guaranteed by the Constitution, then the State also does not have RKBA guaranteed by the Constitution.

3)The Right to Life and Liberty guaranteed under Article 21, is a fundamental right guaranteed by our Constitution, but it is a negative right of the citizens and also a negative obligation of the State.

By negative rights, it means citizens can choose whether to enjoy the rights to the fullest extent or not. It also means the State cannot create obstacles before the citizens, with purpose of preventing the citizens from enjoying their rights to the fullest extent.

By negative obligation of the State, it means the State is not obligated to provide individual citizens, the conditions(security to each and every citizen in this case) so that citizens can enjoy the right to life and liberty to the fullest extent.

If some citizens(self defense prohibitionists) choose not to enjoy their right to life and liberty to the fullest extent and want to become "successful" victims of crime, because they choose not to take responsibility of safeguarding their own life and liberty upon themselves, by exercising their fundamental rights of Self Defense and RKBA, the State cannot be held responsible or liable. At least they should not mislead or demand that everyone along with them be prevented from enjoying their rights.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: NAGRI gets coverage in international press - again

Post by dr.jayakumar » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:30 am

mundaire wrote:
dr.jayakumar wrote:thanks Abhijeet ,i wouldn't have slept otherwise.
Why is that Dr. Jayakumar, what's on your mind :?:

Cheers!
Abhijeet
well, i was wondering,what can something plastic do for target shooting . thought 'it had some laser light aiding accuracy'' didn't see any light,some indian air guns have something similiar to a suppressor but not detachable.other thing that crossed my mind ,I KNEW YOU WOULDN"T DO THAT ''a suppressor''.never thought about adding wieght at the muzzle end can steady your arm.thanks .

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Re: NAGRI gets coverage in international press - again

Post by amit888_2000 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:25 pm

Guys this is OT..But just like to add to the conversation !!
dr.jayakumar wrote:never thought about adding wieght at the muzzle end can steady your arm.thanks .
For my centre fire & standard pistol & rapid fire, Practise,
I use Steyer 5 shot Air pistol + 1400 gm trigger weight (spare 2nd trigger)+ added addittional barell weight bar, so that I get the feel of Walther GSP .32 & .22, while aming - gripping - & firing.
Now for recoil, there are 4 holes at the top of the barell - which releases air, after a shot is fired - I screwed 3 (here some recoil is there, but this doesn't work).

Ammo is expensive & cant fire at home, so one needs 2nd arrangement.

Have a look, Here is the picture(1 weight bar is added on both the sides, the arm becomes very steady). here Steyer & Walther GSP are same in weight & trigger weight too.
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Last edited by amit888_2000 on Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NAGRI gets coverage in international press - again

Post by captrakshitsharma » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:26 pm

I think a proper NAGRI meeting is the need of the hour. Probably inviting Miss Nepram should be invited as well and present her arguments and hear ours........
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Re: NAGRI gets coverage in international press - again

Post by Rajat » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:36 pm

Some national coverage will help tremendously and more so if all this reaches the ears of the decision makers in our country on a regular basis.

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Re: NAGRI gets coverage in international press - again

Post by sa_ali » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:01 pm

All the effort being put is commendable. :D

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