powerful airguns

[striker]

Do the locktime differs in every air gun?

[shahid]

Here Mack The Knife - Bushranger details for you. By the look of it it should be able to pump up an air rifle tank ( bottle ). In England these guys use hand pumps to charge psp air rifles.

BUSHRANGER MAX AIR - MOUNTABLE

Max Air - The most powerful portable Air compressor in it's class, with a huge 50 lpm output @ 30 psi. Will easily pump a 10R.15 off-road from 15 psi to 32 psi in 2 minutes, and then comfortably continue to do so for five of your mate's vehicles as well, before there is a chance of the thermal shut down switch kicking in.

Built-on air filter with replaceable element, assures only clean air enters the unit for long life operation. This unit can be permanently mounted and hard wired if desired.
Easy to read in-line pressure guage lets you conveniently check tyre pressure without having to disconnect the air hose.
10.5 metre coil air hose and pressure gauge comes with a solid brass, snap-on fitting to the compressor and screw-on fiting to the tyres, plus an exclusive built-in tyre deflation valve feature.
Conveniently located on/off switch.
Most powerful .25 HP permanent magnet motor draws from 15 amps to a maximum of 30 amps.
Cast alloy air pump casing with cooling fins for quick heat dissipation.
Screw-in air filter with snap off cover to easily access replaceable filter elements (sold seperately in packs of 5).
Stainless steel valves and high performance PTFE piston ring.
Heavy duty 2.4 metre power cord with battery clamps and in-line 30 amp fuse.
Alloy base tray kepps the compressor stable and separated from sand and dirt.
Anti-vibration feet.
The gearless, direct drive air pump design is quiet and highly efficient.
Automatic thermal cut-off switch protects the motor against damage from overheating.
Alloy base tray can be easily removed so you can permanently ount hte compressor, using hte kit provided.
Robust twin compartment carry/ storage bag included.
Three accessory nozzles included for pumping up bicycle tyres, balls, inflatable toys, etc.

SPECIFICATIONS
Maximum Air Flow: 72 litres per minute
Maximum Voltage: 13.8 volt
Maximum Amperage Draw: 30 A
Maximum Working Pressure: 150 PSI
Maximum Restart Pressure: 200 PSI
Maximum Ambient Temp: 60'
Minimum Ambient Temp: - 55'
Maximum duty cycle time: 40 mins @ 40 psi @ 24'C
PART NUMBER DESCRIPTION PRICE DELIVERED
ANYWHERE IN AUSTRALIA
KINBAN-55X03 Max-Air $417.00
KINBAN-55X04 Max-Air Replacement filters
Pack of 5 $20.90
(NOTE: $8.90 when delivered with compressor)

[mehulkamdar]

Sujay,

Every time I look at buying an air rifle here, I am shocked at how much it costs to own and shoot one. Shooting a 22 lr rifle is cheaper and owning one vastly more so. Since I posted about buying the Gamo, Mark and I bought ourselves some new guns - Mark a 20 gauge shotgun and I bought a Winchester 39A target model 22 lr rifle which I am now restoring. I got a superb gun at a very reasonable price from someone who had inherited it and didn't want it.

Cost is the problem here, and, if you ask Mack The Knife, my Gujarati blood has more than a little to do with it. An old and politically completely incorrect Russian joke says that in business and in stinginess, a Greek is the equivalent of three Jews and an Armenian the equivalent of three Greeks. The Russians probably did not know of my clan, or they would have considered Gujaratis to be the worst of the lot. No offense to anyone belonging to any community, but it is clear that there must be some truth to this considering how many times I have come to the brink of ordering an air rifle and then decided to go with shooting a 22 more.

Cheers!

[Sakobav]

Mehul

My sentiments for $500 I can pick up a CZ .22 or .17...I never could afford a Diana when I was growing up..Had that Tommy Air gun and air pistol..of course my cousins Crossman multi pump that gun went on for ages very durable thing..But Diana was always top on wishlist..Had my fair chance of shooting side lever FWK with Punjabs Shooting team, pistols and Brno .22 and 7.62 IOF Lees.

I still cant help admiring the Diana 52 or FWK you airgunners get the drift..

[mehulkamdar]

Navdeep,

The CZ 452s are being offered by Gander Mountain at around $ 359 or so if I remember right. Had a look at them when I went with Amit and Praveen when Amit bought his Trailside. For $ 500 you could get one with a nice Leupold scope.

I also remember CDNN had some for sale at the ridiculously low price of $ 149 for a while but they seem to have been bought up by other businesses wholesale.

Also, 17 HM2 (not HMR) prices have been falling as the round becomes more popular. Personally, I prefer a semi auto in 22 lr - cheap and reliable ones are available at impossibly low prices and they work fairly well. They also allow me to spend money on better muzzleloaders or centrefire guns and ammunition for them.

Cheers!

[Grumpy]

I think that air rifles are ridiculously expensive ..... especially when compared to a .22 lr......or even a .17 HMR ( The .17 Mach 2 doesn`t enter the equation as far as I`m concerned - an absolutely pointless calibre IMO. )
You can buy a CZ 452 American or Varmint in .22lr, .22 WMR or .17HMR here for £239 at discount - and that`s a proper rifle. A decent PCP air rifle will cost more than double that......Crazy ! If I want a cheap plinking or hunting .22lr I can pick one up for £15 at auction. Even one of those fifteen quid .22 lrs is much more powerful and useful than any £700-1100 air rifle.
Even more crazy is that there are plenty of PCPs that are more expensive than - say - a Steyr Mannlicher Pro Hunter in a choice of centrefire calibres.
I suppose that I could get mildly interested in air rifles but when quality examples are so expensive I just don`t see the point........I`d rather go out and buy another proper rifle.

[penpusher]

Grumpy,

I will give ,what I think are the reasons for the popularity of air rifles/pistols in India.

1.The difficulty in obtaining a license for a firearm.Air rifles/pistols are excluded from the provisions of the Arms Act.No license is required to own them.Obtaining a license for a firearm is a lengthy and tedious process and success is not guranteed.

2.The high cost of ammo. in India Pellets work out to be much cheaper.

3.The quota for cartridges for firearms ,that a licensee is allowed to buy in a year,is generally very low.In majority of the cases,it's only 25-30 cartridges. There is no limit to the no. of air rifle pellets that you can buy.

4.The high cost of imported arms in the country Air rifles/pistols are still cheaper.Also you can get a brand new one.


5.There are only a limited no. of shooting ranges in the country and the access to them is also restricted to members.Sometimes even they are denied the use of the range.If you follow all the required precautions and have the space for it,you can do your plinking/shooting with an air rifle/pistol in your house.

penpusher

[Sujay]

Grumpy,

I will give ,what I think are the reasons for the popularity of air rifles/pistols in India.

1.The difficulty in obtaining a license for a firearm.Air rifles/pistols are excluded from the provisions of the Arms Act.No license is required to own them.Obtaining a license for a firearm is a lengthy and tedious process and success is not guranteed.

2.The high cost of ammo. in India Pellets work out to be much cheaper.

3.The quota for cartridges for firearms ,that a licensee is allowed to buy in a year,is generally very low.In majority of the cases,it's only 25-30 cartridges. There is no limit to the no. of air rifle pellets that you can buy.

4.The high cost of imported arms in the country Air rifles/pistols are still cheaper.Also you can get a brand new one.


5.There are only a limited no. of shooting ranges in the country and the access to them is also restricted to members.Sometimes even they are denied the use of the range.If you follow all the required precautions and have the space for it,you can do your plinking/shooting with an air rifle/pistol in your house.

penpusher

Very well documented reasons which are absolutely correct.

It boils down to the practical aspect. Additionaly, say even if the licencing and ammo aspects were liberal where does one shoot ? Most of the ranges have been limited to the use 10 M air rifle . Outdoors and privacy simply dosen't exist with urchins start following you when spotted with air rifle in a field. At the most, 0.22 LR can be used in private properties for plinking ; a luxury which most of us do not have access to.

[Sujay]

I think that air rifles are ridiculously expensive ..... especially when compared to a .22 lr......or even a .17 HMR ( The .17 Mach 2 doesn`t enter the equation as far as I`m concerned - an absolutely pointless calibre IMO. )
You can buy a CZ 452 American or Varmint in .22lr, .22 WMR or .17HMR here for £239 at discount - and that`s a proper rifle.

John,

Won't you acknowledge that an air rifle is primarily responsible ( not the pellet ) for the functioning aspect unlike a firearm where it largely depends on the ammunition used ? A firearm needs only to perform on the mechanical aspects leaving the rest to the ammo whereas an air rifle needs to contain the delivery mechanism also. The additional cost may be due to this. The top end PCPs are justifiably expensive IMO considering what goes to put together a mechanism capable of near rimfire velocity. What do you say ?

[mehulkamdar]

Sujay,

John should answer on his own but it is definitely NOT correct to say that a fireqrm depends on its ammunition alone for performance. The rigidity of the action, the barrel to action fit, the trigger action (smoothness, weight, lock time etc) the bedding of the action and the bedding/fdree flotation of the barrel all contribute to the accuracy of a rifle. On mroe advanced rifles such as those used in long range and benchrest competition there are harmonics balancers etc that are used to further fine tune the accuracy. Ammunition actually adds a significant variable especially in centrefire calibres with case variables, choices in powder, primer and bullets. It is not like a "buy an air rifle and a can of pellets and go shooting thing."

If rifle shooting were a walk in the park, the most demanding accuracy sport would not be benchrest shooting but an air rifle sport of some sort.

Cheers!

[Sakobav]

Mehul/John

My next gun will be a a .22 or .17 rifle.

Rgds

[Grumpy]

Sujay, there is some merit in what you say but much of the argument breaks down upon analysis: If actual complication of design merited greater cost than any break barrel or underlever air rifle should cost more than a PCP. A PCP has no charging/compression mechanism just a storage tank.......and not a particularly high pressure tank at that - 300 PSi is of little consequence. .22lr rifles do not have to be very complicated whichever method of operation is used but the pressures developed are still vastly greater than those developed - or stored - by an air rifle. Bolts have to be precision machined and have to lock wihout fear of failure and barrels have to safely contain the pressures developed. An air rifle `bolt` is no more complicated than a door or gate bolt apart from the sealing.....invariably achieved with a 1c neoprene ring.
PCPs are, for the most part, an absolute rip-off price-wise and represent a very poor deal when compared to a self charging air-rifle.
As far as Centre-fire rifles are concerned then the matter of containment of pressure assumes much more import than with a .22 LR even. Multiple tons of pressure are developed and bolts have to provide both the firing mechanism secure locking and the safe containment of those pressures - just as with a .22 lr but at vastly greater pressures.
The popularity of hunting air rifles in the UK has a lot to do with people thinking that obtaining a Firearms Certificate is complicated and difficult. It isn`t. The PCP was developed to provide multiple shots without having the pump/re-charge and has developed into a remarkably large market based on a fallacy or misunderstanding. The daftest rifles of all ( in the UK ) are the FAC rated examples - there`s just no logic to the ownership of one. For those who are too lazy or too infirm to pump or hand charge their air rifles then the Borock/Umarex 850 Magnum CO2 makes more economic sense than any PCP......apart from the Logun Solo.
I fully understand the situation of gun ownership in India and the reasons why air rifles are popular. Justifiably so when compared to the UK in many respects. My comments were by way of being deliberately confrontational to encourage some dabate on the matter of rim-fire rifles v air rifles ...... and also to debunk some of the popular myths.

[Grumpy]

Navi I hope that you start looking for a rimfire rifle very soon - their opportunities for use are rather greater than with a Shotgun and the cost of shooting far less - a `brick` of 50 .22lr cartridges costs a couple of dollars or less in the US. .17HMR ammo is considerably more expensive ( although still cheap. )
You can buy a good quality, accurate American made .22 lr very inexpensively.......ridiculously so. Get a semi-auto ( not the Remmy because of their continuing magazine problems ) for rapid-fire plinking fun.
The .17HMR is something else......I reckon it makes the .22 lr totally obsolete in everything but cost of ammunition and where required for target shooting. Much flatter shooting, more accurate for less expense ( in the case of the rifles ) and with greatly extended range. It deserves a `proper` rifle and the CZ 452 American or Varmint fullfills that role admirably and remarkably inexpensively. The trigger needs attention but that is sorted out very easily with the Rifle Basix kit which costs about $10.
How accurate ? Clamped in a rest 1/2" groups at 100 metres - better than you can shoot in other words.
Just about all the bad press for the .17HMR comes from .22lr die-hard reactionaries. When almost every professional pest controller in the UK has moved over to the .17HMR and wouldn`t consider going back to the .22lr you know that it has definite advantages. The only role that the .22lr has ( apart from competition ) ( and cheap plinking/short range hunting ) is in fully moderated sub-sonic use when absolute quietness is essential.

[mehulkamdar]

Navdeep,

Grumpy has very wise words on the Remingtons as is to be expected from him - the semi auto 597 and the bolt 504 are both somewhat problematic because of their magazine design. A shame because both are superbly accurate rifles. I bought a cheap Marlin 60 on Mark's advice after considering it and the 597 and don;t regret it one bit. Another nice choice is the Ruger 10-22 and that rifle could be shot with hyper velocity ammunition which the Marlins cannot. Of course, if you;re going for a bolt action, there are the budget CZ 452s, very nice rifles, also several models from Marlin which are also very nice and the top of the line Kimbers which are expensive but superbly finished and accurate. Savage also make some very nice bolt action rimmies and their Accu trigger is now available on their rimfires, a very nice touch. Incredibly accurate rifles at a very reasonable price. Do buy whatever rimmie you want and have fun. The 22 lrs would be cheap to own and shoot, the 17 HMRs better performing and with considerably more expensive ammunition. Try a few different ones as you did with the shotguns and then make your choice.

Grumpy,

Of course, we're not allowed the use of moderators here, but the only criticism of the 17 HMR that I have heard of in the US has been the cost of the ammunition, high, I suspect, because of the plastic point jacketed bullets that it uses. No one criticises them for their performance and most acknowledge that it is vastly superior to the 100+ year old 22 lr. I doubt many AMericans would give their 22 lrs up - they are lovely and fun rifles, after all, but nearly everyone here acknowledges that the 17 HMR is a vastly ballistically superior round.

Cheers!

[Grumpy]

Actually Mehul most American States do allow the use of moderators......but you have to pay a hefty fee to the BATF ( I`m pretty sure it`s them ) where their use is permitted. Came as a surprise to me but is the case - check it out.
It`s a shame about the 581 because it is - as you say - very accurate, especially in the heavy barrelled version. The magazines still don`t work after a re-design and for best reliability only 8 cartridges should be inserted.....which helps but doesn`t completely solve the problem.
Sorry that I can`t be too impressed with Savages Accutrigger - I expect rifles to have decent triggers.......except for CZs ( and they are easily and cheaply sorted. ) It is a good system though because in the US it`s a whole different ball game with the majority of triggers being plain awful.
I don`t think anything has impressed me as much as the .17HMR - It`s introduction was both innovatory and revolutionary. Can`t say the same about the .17 Mach 2 which I think is pointless.