Ruger .380 revolvers

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cottage cheese
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Re: Ruger .380 revolvers

Post by cottage cheese » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:23 pm

Hi Krag,

The two 'Duty' revolvers in current Indian Police service are the Ruger Service Six and a hideous contraption called the FIE Corp. Titan Tiger...also in .380/200. I've heard murmurings of Llamas but I've only seen .32 Llama revolvers in Customs Department service. Apart from that, there are a lot of .380/200 hand-me-downs from former Army inventory, like Webley's , Enfields ,Smith&Wesson K frame M&Ps and Colts in similar specifications. These old war horses soldier on side by side with the Service six and the Titan Tiger.

For concealed carry the standard issue is the S&W M49 Bodyguard in .38Spl. People keep referring to the Colt Cobra snubbie but I've never seen one so presumably they are simply calling the S&W a cobra simply because the Cobra name caught on as a popular snubbie. Never heard of or seen a Speed Six.

Here are some pictures of Police revolvers that I examined earlier this year.

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A well used /abused Sturm Ruger Service Six in 380/200. There are still many unused examples kept as reserve, so 'brand-new' Rugers continue to appear in khaki hands.

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A close up of the service cartridge markings on the left side of the barrel....barely visible.

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The Titan Tiger made of Arminus Parts.

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Another view of the Titan Tiger

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Here's the box cover heralding the Titan Tigers pedigree.

The Titan Tiger is probably the result of another mini 'bofors' scandal. Certainly not duty material. Definitely involved greased palms. It was manufactured by an obscure and perhaps now defunct Florida company F.I.E Corp, Miami. The Frame is a coarse die cast alloy that appears to be zinc based. Most were worn out well before the Ruger counterparts even began silvering on the edges. Currently most have loose barrels because the ventilated rib that abuts into a slot on the alloy frame have lost their screws or simply sit in enlarged slots. Timing often buggers up because quite a bit of trigger /lock work is made of flimsy sheet metal. The grip is simply a plastic piece bolted on to a stub in the frame and is made to have the appearance of wood.

As regards semi-autos, it started off with large quantity import of the Belgian made FN Browning GP35 in standard configuration. Indian made HPs are actually clones of the Canadian Inglis HP... savaged by distressing degrees of sub standard quality and finish. All indian military weapons (other than imports) are manufactured by the state run Indian Ordnance Factory Board under the aegis of the Ministry of Defense. Firearm factories are spread all over the country. The Indian HP clone... called the Pistol 1A is manufactured at three factories:
RFI (Rifle Factory Ishapore) West Bengal
SAF(Small Arms Factory) Kanpur
and BDL (Bharat Dynamics Limited) Hyderabad
and maybe GSF(Gun & Shell Factory) Cossipore, West Bengal.

One musn't forget that in the mid 80's the Government of India tried to import about 55,000 Cz75s with a view to have it as a standard police side arm...or perhaps it was only for the para military forces... I can't recall. The gun while being a damn good piece ended up not being used because of the inevitable allegations of corruption and of course it also clashed with the idea of standardization when the IOFB was gearing up or already manufacturing its Inglis HP clone/piracy. The issue was forgotten because the Bofors Scandal that came shortly over shadowed every thing else.

Of late, the Glock 17 and 19 are the blue eyed boys... the establishment and a lot of lay-folk regard Glocks as the panacea to every ill that visits the nation.

As regards other revolvers, there are enormous stocks of the old .455s which was the standard before the .380/200.
They are more or less retired and most are locked away to die slowly.. occasionally they make an appearance when the situation demands so . While a few were purchased directly for police use, most of those in the various state police inventories appear to have been inherited from the army even before independence. Obviously, most would be Webley&Scott Mk IVs and VIs and magnificent beasts they are. Most MkVIs bear almost no markings and are somewhat coarsely finished, probably indicating war time (WWI) production runs. There are also many Colt and S&W New-Service revolvers marked .455 ELEY. Also to my surprise I dug out a few specimens of Webley RIC(Royal Irish Constabulary) No1 DA revolvers in .476, and the Webley Fosbery .455!! Why, a Webley MkIII small frame with safety latch in .38 (perhaps 380) appeared out of the pile!! I can post pictures if required.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
cc
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timmy
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Re: Ruger .380 revolvers

Post by timmy » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:59 am

Outstanding report, cc, and quite interesting!

I sure would love to have that Webley Fosbery!
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Re: Ruger .380 revolvers

Post by cottage cheese » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:49 pm

Hi Timmy,

The elderly beasts in 455 are a source of great fascination to me as well... except for the buggered finish and grime, most are in better mechanical shape than some of their modern 380 equivalents.

Here are some pictures I could click at short notice... the guns were the contents of the nearest locker within easy reach...no telling what other treasures one would find in other lockers!!

Not intending to hijack the thread ...but anyway just for viewing pleasure ... For the purists- I'm sorry I had to deface the pictures by blurring out the unit details...for obvious reasons.

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An armful of old 455s!!


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The Webley R.I.C (Royal Irish Constabulary) No.1 in .476 - Webleys first DA revolver.

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Webley R.I.C No1 - with loading gate open.

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The Webley Fosbery .455 automatic revolver. This particular specimen had its trigger missing.

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The Webley Fosbery ready for reloading.

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The Webley Fosbery partially disassembled.

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Colt's New Service DA Revolver in .455ELEY - note this cartridge is very different from the rimmed .445 Webley.

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The New Service ready for loading.

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A handsome pair of .455 Webley MkVI's. These have almost no markings are coarsely finished and the grips are probably made of phenolic resin rather than bakelite since they are a dull chocolate brown. All this probably indicates war time manufacture.

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A solitary Webley MkIII in .38 chambering (Not sure whether this was .380/200). Note the safety latch as compared to the more common cross bolt square section button.

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Another view of the Webley MkIII. Also note the different grip design.

Hope you all enjoy these as much as I did....

regards,
cc
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Re: Ruger .380 revolvers

Post by Vikram » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:03 pm

CC, You are a star! What treasures you have at your disposal (Almost :wink: ).Thank you so much sharing these exceedingly interesting pictures.Any possibility of repairing and restoring the Fosbery revolver?

I have seen/held Rugers and Llamas issued to the civil polics.I have seen the .455s issued to the Special Armed Police.

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Vikram
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Re: Ruger .380 revolvers

Post by cottage cheese » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:33 pm

vrohan59 wrote:Besides the police,certain other departments like the Customs,and The Assam Rifles are issued with these weapons.If i not wrong
the Ruger weapons are marked "TITAN TIGER",with a 4"barrel.Besides the Ruger,the Colt "COBRA" Llama "MARTIAL"model,also in .380/200 chambering are also plentiful.I have shot both these weapons a lot,recoil is really light.The S&W revolver mentioned by winnie could be the S&W "CHIEF"S Special in .38Spl(5 shot cylinder stainless steel),I have fired such weapons belonging to The Customs,but .38Spl ammo isn't available :!: We used .380/200 in them.
Regards,
Rohan
The Ruger Service Six and the Titan Tiger are two entirely different revolvers.

The Assam Rifles is armed entirely on army lines so no revolvers here, unless one is referring to the long-gone era when the army used revolvers.

regards,
cc

-- Tue Oct 26, 2010 14:35 --
Vikram wrote:CC, You are a star! What treasures you have at your disposal (Almost :wink: ).Thank you so much sharing these exceedingly interesting pictures.Any possibility of repairing and restoring the Fosbery revolver?

I have seen/held Rugers and Llamas issued to the civil polics.I have seen the .455s issued to the Special Armed Police.

Best-
Vikram
Ah Vikram,

Indeed what treasures!! As for restoration, any such hopes are dashed in face of the unconcerned and generally stupid babus.

regards,
cc
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Re: Ruger .380 revolvers

Post by m24 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:10 pm

Thanks for the pics, CC. Can't take my eyes off them. :)

Sorry for going OT, but, CC, any Enfield revolvers in any of these lockers??

Regards
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1) All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3) Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target.
4) Identify your target, and what is behind it.

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Re: Ruger .380 revolvers

Post by cottage cheese » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:26 pm

m24 wrote:Thanks for the pics, CC. Can't take my eyes off them. :)

Sorry for going OT, but, CC, any Enfield revolvers in any of these lockers??

Regards
I believe I did handle some Enfield Revolvers in .380/200... To be honest, in my excitement I failed to take note of which were Webleys or Enfields. I do recall seeing at least one of the DA-only 380's - you know... the one with a spur-less hammer...probably an Enfield .380 of WWII vintage. Perhaps next time round I'll sort them out in detail.

regards,
cc
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Re: Ruger .380 revolvers

Post by m24 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:08 pm

Thanks CC.

Regards
Jeff Cooper advocated four basic rules of gun safety:
1) All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
2) Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3) Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target.
4) Identify your target, and what is behind it.

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Re: Ruger .380 revolvers

Post by timmy » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:21 pm

Oh, yum yum! What a treasure trove! I love the big Enfields and Webleys! I once had a chance to get a New Service and so regret that I didn't... And thanks for the detail on the Webley Fosbery!

It would seem as if you are sitting on the makings of a fine collection or museum display, with the proper restoration. Too bad about the situation, but thanks so much for sharing, CC. This is a real treat!
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Re: Ruger .380 revolvers

Post by sumit3109 » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:01 pm

Hi Guys,
I am new to this forum. It would be really nice if you people could solve a small problem of mine. I have .32 pistol (IOF made) and now want to change a new .22 pistol (An imported one). But the problem is that you don't get an imported pistol easily and if you find it is too expensive. Can anyone let me know that how could I import a .22 pistol for myself, which also fits into my budget.

Waiting for reply,
Cheers,
Sumit

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Re: Ruger .380 revolvers

Post by cottage cheese » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:33 pm

sumit3109 wrote:Hi Guys,
I am new to this forum. It would be really nice if you people could solve a small problem of mine. I have .32 pistol (IOF made) and now want to change a new .22 pistol (An imported one). But the problem is that you don't get an imported pistol easily and if you find it is too expensive. Can anyone let me know that how could I import a .22 pistol for myself, which also fits into my budget.

Waiting for reply,
Cheers,
Sumit
Sumit,

Welcome to IFG.

You are posting in the wrong section.

You can't import a hand gun on a limited budget.... that is if you are able to find an avenue to import one at all.
With the near ban on imports of firearms since 1986, the only way one can import is T.R (Transfer of residence) and for competitive sport as a renowned shooter. Either way will prove to be expensive.

regards,
cc
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