IOF 30-06 vs .315 rifle

[bandook]

hi guys as per my information the production is still going on , they r not going to phase out the .315 rifles it would be more than years for the new model to be launched .....30.06 is readily available in the market.....the only drawback is it has a three shot magazine....but still its a far better weapon than the .315 rifle be it the lethal power or the quality compared to the ischapore .315 or the weight......if money is not the criteria then go for 30.06 also try out the .315 rifle from trichnapalli its much better than the one from ischapore.....all of this is available in the market if u have trouble finding some i can let u know where to find one near ur place......

[eljefe]

sounds good! Why are trichnoply (pardon the Brit spelling ) rifles better than the others? I smoked the Trichnoply cigars years ago and enjoyed them...

[winnie_the_pooh]

sounds good! Why are trichnoply (pardon the Brit spelling ) rifles better than the others? I smoked the Trichnoply cigars years ago and enjoyed them...

They have a better paint job.People are paying a premium for that.The barrel has a strange profile.Thinner than the RFI one it flares out at the muzzle and the centre where the rear sight and foresight are fixed.They have also simplified some machining steps and eliminated the cut in the receiver side wall right next to the ejector screw.

All in all,not worth buying let alone paying a premium.

[eljefe]

Ah, some choke points added then? I am guessing, why the flare in the profile? unless it was another QC problem, which they used as a marketing stratagem,goaded on by the myriad IOFB spin doctors
the Cigars, now those were good cigars...yup, someone must have told our gun denied generations about the great paint job and the dealers laugh all the way to the banks.Any chance of some comparative pics winnie?

[bandook]

its not only the paint job of the trichnapalli .315 the whole rifle is much more smoother to operate well it sure carries the premuim as the factory is still new and the production is slow..... the polish of the stock and the overall weight is much better than the one we get from ischapore....overall given the choice we have its a good option....

[winnie_the_pooh]

its not only the paint job of the trichnapalli .315 the whole rifle is much more smoother to operate well it sure carries the premuim as the factory is still new and the production is slow..... the polish of the stock and the overall weight is much better than the one we get from ischapore....overall given the choice we have its a good option....

It is lighter because of the twig like barrel.

BTW that cut in the receiver wall(not there in the Trichrapalli one) serves a purpose but then who the hell is bothered.As far as smooth to operate goes,take out the mag of the RFI one,oil the bolt and cycle it a couple of hundred times and you will have a butter smooth action.Takes about 20 minutes.Sure beats paying 7-8,000/- as premium.

Eljefe,

I have seen only one of these super duper rifles.Workmanship is the same as the RFI one.Basically it sucks.The one that I saw had the mag follower tabs turned the wrong way.Will try to get some photos but would take some time.

[eljefe]

Sure, no hurry. Just a point of interest, that same rifles, made in 2 different facilities are not standardised...
The RFI 303 and the ' Indian' mods done in the 303 (Steel bedding) are accepted worldwide as accuracy features. Pity, it had to go down the drain this way.

[bandook]

there is a saying 50% of something is better than having 100% of nothing......sure the quality sucks but do we have any other option.....the 30.06 and the .315 are made in the same factory but there is a huge diff in the quality of both.....sure u can get a butter smooth action by cycling it a hundred of times but who has that much time.......then u do d same with the mag also the bullets get stuck...........i wonder when will the RFI would do something ab the quality of .315 rifles

[tobler69]

i got a licence for a rifle , as i wanted a good rifle gun dealers here are strongly recommending .315 IOF rather than 30-06 IOF ,coz in 30-06 they say the barrel is made of alloy (they better know which one) so it has chances of breaking due to little carelessnes if it falls on a hard surface , and also the finishing is nt good as the production has just started so theyll take time to perfect this model, as far as .315 is concerned its has superior finish ,tried and tested and improved due to longer experience of manufacturing. lemme check out after i buy one.

[jaz]

hi ,
At this point of discussion input from Bobby Sidhu is really required . I think he is appropriate person
throwing some technical light on IOF 30-06 vs .315 rifle...
More and more people in Punjab are still interested in .315 .

[Katana]

@tobler69,
Your state of mind and confusion regarding selecting between the two is quite understandable. Most guys would go through this. Anyway, my understanding of both the firearms is given below. I hope I have my facts right and that you may be able to take others advice before selecting.

History, design and build quality: Well, the .315 is basically based on the SMLE/Lee Enfield. The original .303 firearms were one of the best bolt actions ever produced in the last century, but the IOFs are on the other end of the spectrum. Altough this design and tech is rather old world now, there are quite a few admirers and owners in India and abroad. Most of them prefer the sporterised version, of which the .315 is a part. I have seen some examples of the older .315s and these are of much better workmanship. However, the newer ones left a lot to be desired. Also, machining tolerances are much greater and parts are not assembled seamlessly. The stock, of course, should be just repalced. Another odd ball design is the safety toggle. Its on the left of the reciever and does not engage/ disengage assuringly. So one just does not know when to fire. The magazine release is to the back of magazine in the form of a tongue that is to be pushed up, but then again no two firearms would have the same degree of functioning of this feature. Now, on the other hand, the .30-06 is a knock off of the Sauer 202, a wonderful sporter in it's original form. Very popular in Europe but higher priced too. How and why the IOF decided to copy this rifle and as to whether they have a licensing agreement with Sauer & Sohn is a mystery to me. Piont is, that IOF decided on copying a good rifle but again messed up on the manufacturing angle. The good thing is that the design is popular and well accepted abroad, and because of it's modular structure, a lot of accessories are available there. In fact, the origanal Sauer design incorporates interchange of barrels to change calibres while retaining the action! Concerns over the .30-06 barrels being 'soft' are not really true. I somehow feel that barrels are not made by IOF but Tata Yodogawa or DRDO or something like that. They are of much better quality that what I have seen coming from IOF. People generally do not look closely into the barrel to figure it out and I think the hard anodised/ powder coated finish on the barrel puts them off. Meanwhile the barrel is a standard 24" affair with 1:10 twist ratio. This is an internationally accepted configuration for medium calibres. The barrel is also much thicker than the .315 and will aid better heat dissipation. Meanwhile the reciever and bolt are of rather minimalistic architecture and are well suited for our conditions, wherein less and simple designs would go further in terms of usage and maintainance. The safety is operated with a push down plunger centrally behind the bolt and engages positively,while a load indicator is incorporated under the bolt and can be easily sighted. A handy feature on the .30-06 is pre tapped holes for mounting optics on the reciever unlike the .315, where one has to side mount a scope. On my own rifle I have affixed a Bushnell 3-9x40 with Warne M902/903 bases and rings. Surprisingly, it's a wonderful fit and the scope sits low on the reciever, thereby minimising the gap between both the axes. Hopefully this should improve accuracy. The stock is the same pukey yellow wood, presumably pine, but a good option would be to get a synthetic one from abroad. That would be easily available for the Sauer 202 except a modification would have to be made for the band that holds the rear sight to the stock. This is not a Sauer design and one will have to work around it. Of course, the best would be to get walnut blanks and build your own stock.

Caliber and ammunition: The .315 is basically the 8mm rimmed cartridge, popular in the closing years of the 19th century and the begining of the 20th. Someone associated with gun trade once told me that this was chosen for two reasons. Firstly, to make it distinctive in the market and secondly, because of the huge amount of .303s lying around with the goverment once the SLRs were inducted. All they had to do was to rebore the barrels and use their ammunition loading facitlies to manufacture .315 ammo. Now bear in mind that the government in those days was manufcturing .303 ammo. Both are similar and are rimmed cartridges. Of course, all this is obsolete now and the IOF carries on manufacturing .315 ammo. How long will they keep on doing it? Anybody's guess. Now the .30-06 is 7.62x63 rimless. This is widely available in India and just about any country in the world. Moreover the IOF today manufactures 7.62x61 belted ammo for the Armoured Corps for their MMGs. The bullet dimesions, neck and throat of the cartridge are the same as the .30-06 with just a 2mm difference in the length. I have it from some elderly shooters that IOF .30-06 ammunition was available in the market a couple of decades ago and a few of them actually used it in their firearms. Basically this means that maybe one day we could get indigeneous ammo should imports be restricted. The ballistics of this popular calibre are too well known to write about, unlike the .315 which has a somewhat parabolic trajectory. I have not yet shot from my own .30-06, so am not really able to comment on it. I have even heard of the jackets coming off the .315 bullets in their flight path! While this may or may not be true, the simple fact that the calibre is the prime factor is choosing a firearm, the odds just stack up against the .315.

Costs:As far as costs are concerned .315 ammo retails for about Rs. 55 to 75 while .30-06 could be anywhere from Rs. 75 to 125, while there is a greater choice of bullet grain and type one wants in a .30-06. Firearm prices I have seen are Rs. 55K for .315 and anywhere between Rs. 95K to 1.40 lacs for the .30-06. Somehow, I think the dealers are trying to flog off their stocks of .315s while deriding the .30-06. I know of a dealer who has 10 .315s lying with him and doesn't know what to do. Another dealer has a huge stock of ammo with no takers!

Modifiability for personal usage: As I mentioned earlier, the .30-06 is of modular design and because of this fact, it could be modified very well for one's personal usage. Scope bases are easily mountable and a scope of one's choice fitted, while a simple change of a synthetic stock will alter the entire look , feel and comfort of this rifle. For a more enthusiastic person a stock build up cannot be discounted. Even a bipod, especially a 9"-13" prone, would go well with the front swivel stud, which is centrally located for such a device. No drilling holes in the stock. In fact the front stud is more suited to a bipod than a sling, which would bite into your shoulder should you actually use it! As far as free floating the barrel is concerned, I can't really comment, because I still need to open it up! However, I suspect the rear sight band will cause some grouse. The max you could do with the .315 is side mount a scope and hope both the axes remain true to their line of sight and make an altogether new stock of walnut, but making your own stock is an altogether different story.

So there you are, thats my take on both the firearms. I guess you could now make your own choice.

Katana

[tobler69]

@tobler69,
Your state of mind and confusion regarding selecting between the two is quite understandable. Most guys would go through this. Anyway, my understanding of both the firearms is given below. I hope I have my facts right and that you may be able to take others advice before selecting.

History, design and build quality: Well, the .315 is basically based on the SMLE/Lee Enfield. The original .303 firearms were one of the best bolt actions ever produced in the last century, but the IOFs are on the other end of the spectrum. Altough this design and tech is rather old world now, there are quite a few admirers and owners in India and abroad. Most of them prefer the sporterised version, of which the .315 is a part. I have seen some examples of the older .315s and these are of much better workmanship. However, the newer ones left a lot to be desired. Also, machining tolerances are much greater and parts are not assembled seamlessly. The stock, of course, should be just repalced. Another odd ball design is the safety toggle. Its on the left of the reciever and does not engage/ disengage assuringly. So one just does not know when to fire. The magazine release is to the back of magazine in the form of a tongue that is to be pushed up, but then again no two firearms would have the same degree of functioning of this feature. Now, on the other hand, the .30-06 is a knock off of the Sauer 202, a wonderful sporter in it's original form. Very popular in Europe but higher priced too. How and why the IOF decided to copy this rifle and as to whether they have a licensing agreement with Sauer & Sohn is a mystery to me. Piont is, that IOF decided on copying a good rifle but again messed up on the manufacturing angle. The good thing is that the design is popular and well accepted abroad, and because of it's modular structure, a lot of accessories are available there. In fact, the origanal Sauer design incorporates interchange of barrels to change calibres while retaining the action! Concerns over the .30-06 barrels being 'soft' are not really true. I somehow feel that barrels are not made by IOF but Tata Yodogawa or DRDO or something like that. They are of much better quality that what I have seen coming from IOF. People generally do not look closely into the barrel to figure it out and I think the hard anodised/ powder coated finish on the barrel puts them off. Meanwhile the barrel is a standard 24" affair with 1:10 twist ratio. This is an internationally accepted configuration for medium calibres. The barrel is also much thicker than the .315 and will aid better heat dissipation. Meanwhile the reciever and bolt are of rather minimalistic architecture and are well suited for our conditions, wherein less and simple designs would go further in terms of usage and maintainance. The safety is operated with a push down plunger centrally behind the bolt and engages positively,while a load indicator is incorporated under the bolt and can be easily sighted. A handy feature on the .30-06 is pre tapped holes for mounting optics on the reciever unlike the .315, where one has to side mount a scope. On my own rifle I have affixed a Bushnell 3-9x40 with Warne M902/903 bases and rings. Surprisingly, it's a wonderful fit and the scope sits low on the reciever, thereby minimising the gap between both the axes. Hopefully this should improve accuracy. The stock is the same pukey yellow wood, presumably pine, but a good option would be to get a synthetic one from abroad. That would be easily available for the Sauer 202 except a modification would have to be made for the band that holds the rear sight to the stock. This is not a Sauer design and one will have to work around it. Of course, the best would be to get walnut blanks and build your own stock.

Caliber and ammunition: The .315 is basically the 8mm rimmed cartridge, popular in the closing years of the 19th century and the begining of the 20th. Someone associated with gun trade once told me that this was chosen for two reasons. Firstly, to make it distinctive in the market and secondly, because of the huge amount of .303s lying around with the goverment once the SLRs were inducted. All they had to do was to rebore the barrels and use their ammunition loading facitlies to manufacture .315 ammo. Now bear in mind that the government in those days was manufcturing .303 ammo. Both are similar and are rimmed cartridges. Of course, all this is obsolete now and the IOF carries on manufacturing .315 ammo. How long will they keep on doing it? Anybody's guess. Now the .30-06 is 7.62x63 rimless. This is widely available in India and just about any country in the world. Moreover the IOF today manufactures 7.62x61 belted ammo for the Armoured Corps for their MMGs. The bullet dimesions, neck and throat of the cartridge are the same as the .30-06 with just a 2mm difference in the length. I have it from some elderly shooters that IOF .30-06 ammunition was available in the market a couple of decades ago and a few of them actually used it in their firearms. Basically this means that maybe one day we could get indigeneous ammo should imports be restricted. The ballistics of this popular calibre are too well known to write about, unlike the .315 which has a somewhat parabolic trajectory. I have not yet shot from my own .30-06, so am not really able to comment on it. I have even heard of the jackets coming off the .315 bullets in their flight path! While this may or may not be true, the simple fact that the calibre is the prime factor is choosing a firearm, the odds just stack up against the .315.

Costs:As far as costs are concerned .315 ammo retails for about Rs. 55 to 75 while .30-06 could be anywhere from Rs. 75 to 125, while there is a greater choice of bullet grain and type one wants in a .30-06. Firearm prices I have seen are Rs. 55K for .315 and anywhere between Rs. 95K to 1.40 lacs for the .30-06. Somehow, I think the dealers are trying to flog off their stocks of .315s while deriding the .30-06. I know of a dealer who has 10 .315s lying with him and doesn't know what to do. Another dealer has a huge stock of ammo with no takers!

Modifiability for personal usage: As I mentioned earlier, the .30-06 is of modular design and because of this fact, it could be modified very well for one's personal usage. Scope bases are easily mountable and a scope of one's choice fitted, while a simple change of a synthetic stock will alter the entire look , feel and comfort of this rifle. For a more enthusiastic person a stock build up cannot be discounted. Even a bipod, especially a 9"-13" prone, would go well with the front swivel stud, which is centrally located for such a device. No drilling holes in the stock. In fact the front stud is more suited to a bipod than a sling, which would bite into your shoulder should you actually use it! As far as free floating the barrel is concerned, I can't really comment, because I still need to open it up! However, I suspect the rear sight band will cause some grouse. The max you could do with the .315 is side mount a scope and hope both the axes remain true to their line of sight and make an altogether new stock of walnut, but making your own stock is an altogether different story.

So there you are, thats my take on both the firearms. I guess you could now make your own choice.

Katana

hey,
thanks bhai, katana i really needed this piece of advice. i always wanted to go for 30-06 but lotta ppl really confused me but they really didnt give a proper reason why to go for it or nt to go fr it ,and as im getting kinda greedy, wut does a decently priced imported 30-06 rifle costs?

regards
tabish

n can i buy a 30-06 directly from ischapore iof. they hv nt loaded the purchasing form for 30-06 and .315 in their site ofbindia.gov.in

[m24]

n can i buy a 30-06 directly from ischapore iof. they hv nt loaded the purchasing form for 30-06 and .315 in their site ofbindia.gov.in

IOF 30-06 can be bought only through the dealer. And there's no decent price for an imported 30-06. It would always be the seller's price depending on the condition of the rifle and your bargaining capacity.

And please stop using mobile text language.

Regards

[Katana]

tobler69,
No, you can't buy it direct from IOF. One has to purchase it through a dealer. Prices for 'imported' or rather used guns, in this caliber are from Rs. 2.5 to 4.5 lacs, altough I would strongly urge to procure the IOF. Atleast, you could 'play' around with the rifle per se, than being stuck with one that you may not be able to configure or modify according to your tastes or requirements!

Meanwhile, there are 3 threads running on this forum for the IOF .30-06. Check them out, especially that of Z375. I think he has done a wonderful job. I'm sorry I have not been able to provide you with information on the shooting capability of this firearm, but that is due to the rain! Post the monsoon, I'm sure I would have exact info on this front.

Katana

[saleem]

the current model of in dian ordnance 30-06 has 6 lug action, whereas the winchster action will be having just 3? does that mean the existing model is better? ?