Exercise your right: “the right to information”

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raimanmeet
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Exercise your right: “the right to information”

Post by raimanmeet » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:58 am

Since my last post I received many personal messages and was happy to see that there are so many people willing to volunteer and contribute towards the cause of making the right to bear and keep arms in India a reality.

Before we initiate any action our planning has to be meticulous. This can only be achieved by gathering information. With the new MHA policy in place the threat level has risen to the level of ‘code BLACK’. We have the access to various laws and judicial opinions but what is missing is the abuse of the discretion that is vested in the hands of the administration. We need data, reliable information to put a strong argument in favor of RKBA. Without the information, figures, trends the defeat is certain. I apologize for the delay in getting back and posting this as promised.

The best way to gather information is by invoking the right to information, which not only will be reliable but will also be easily admissible before the courts. Although the process is a painful one that consumes a lot of time but that should not deter us from seeking information. The following gives a detailed insight of how we can gather as much information as possible.

THE PLAN:

Before we venture further we have to make sure that our efforts are organized and well planned. Filing multiple RTI applications will not only waste time but also money and other resources that could have been put to better use. For this I would like to form groups of people from different parts of the country as follows:
Northern States

• Jammu & Kashmir
• Delhi
• Haryana
• Uttrakhand
• Uttar Pradesh
• Himachal Pradesh

Southern States

• Karnataka
• Andhra Pradesh
• Tamil Nadu
• Kerala
• Andaman & Nicobar Islands
• Goa

Eastern States

• Tripura
• Sikkim
• Mizoram
• Meghalaya
• Nagaland
• Manipur
• Arunachal Pradesh
• Assam
• Bihar

Western states

• Punjab
• Rajasthan
• Gujarat
• Maharashtra
• Haryana

Centeral India

• Madhya Pradesh
• Chattisgarh
• Orissa
• Jharkhand

This is a rough distribution and can be changed accordingly.

RTI AN OVERVIEW:

I will now give a brief overview on how to go about filing a RTI application. RTI is a central law and applicable all across India with an exception of J & K for which there is a separate J & K RTI Act. Any information not prohibited by the Act or the Official Secrets act can be sought through the process.
Under section 8 of the act the following information cannot be obtained.

• information, disclosure of which would prejudicially affect the sovereignty and integrity of India, the security, *strategic, scientific or economic” interests of the State, relation with foreign State or lead to incitement of an offence;
• information which has been expressly forbidden to be published by any court of law or tribunal or the disclosure of which may constitute contempt of court;
• information, the disclosure of which would cause a breach of privilege of Parliament or the State Legislature;
• information including commercial confidence, trade secrets or intellectual property, the disclosure of which would harm the competitive position of a third party, unless the competent authority is satisfied that larger public interest warrants the disclosure of such information;
• information available to a person in his fiduciary relationship, unless the competent authority is satisfied that the larger public interest warrants the disclosure of such information;
• information received in confidence from foreign Government;
• information, the disclosure of which would endanger the life or physical safety of any person or identify the source of information or assistance given in confidence for law enforcement or security purposes;
• information which would impede the process of investigation or apprehension or prosecution of offenders;
• cabinet papers including records of deliberations of the Council of Ministers, Secretaries and other officers;
• information which relates to personal information the disclosure of which has no relationship to any public activity or interest, or which would cause unwarranted invasion of the privacy of the individual (but it is also provided that the information which cannot be denied to the Parliament or a State Legislature shall not be denied by this exemption);
• Notwithstanding any of the exemptions listed above, a public authority may allow access to information, if public interest in disclosure outweighs the harm to the protected interests.

THIRD PARTY DISCLOSURES

Recently there was a controversy about the third party disclosures that was clarified by a circular no. 8/2/2010-lR dated April 27th 2010 and available at <http://persmin.gov.in/WriteData/Circula ... 010-IR.pdf>

THE PROCESS:

There is no specified format for a RTI application unless specifically provided and even if the format is not followed but the application gives all relevant information it cannot be rejected. For specific formats kindly refer to the websites of different departments.
In our case we are dealing with the District Magistrates or the Addl. District Magistrates who usually grant the licenses in many districts with the exception of metropolitan cities where the task is assigned to the District Commissioner of Police. Every department be it the District magistrate or the DCP would have a PIO (Public information officer) to which the RTI application has to be addressed.

A sample application would look like this:
To,
The Public information Officer
District Collectrate
[Address]

Sir,

Subject: Request for Information under section 6(1) of the Right to Information Act 2005.

1. Applicant’s Name: Mr. [Name] son of [Father’s Name]
2. Applicant’s Address: [Applicant’s address]
3. Application particulars:
i. Particulars about the application:
a) Department with which the information is concerned: Addl. DM (Arms Division/licensing)
b) Format in which the information is requested: Typed on paper.
c) Duration of the information: [if seeking data then the time duration has to be mentioned]
d) Details of the information sought:
a. The total number of arms licenses issued in the year 2009-2010 with the category of arm. [just an example]
b. The stage at which my arms application bearing no. [] dated [] is pending with your office. Etc.
c. [you can put in as many requests as you want]
4. Application fees:
i. Rupees 10/- (ten) enclosed as postal order no. ………….. dated……………



Date:
Palce: [place from where the applicant has filed the application] Applicant’s Signature
FEES:

The RTI application has to be accompanied with Rs. 10 as the fees. The best way of remitting the fees is through the postal order available at all post offices. The postal order should be in the name of “Accounts officer”, [Department], [city]. The fees can also be paid in person at a few offices. The department will provide you with a receipt if the fee paid in paid in person.

MAILING:

The application can either be mailed as a registered post along with AD so that you have a proof of dispatch or can be handed over to the office in person and make sure that you take the inward number on a separate piece of paper with the details of the address and the addressee. On it with the seal of the office and date.

Feel free to peruse through the Govt. issued RTI guide available at the following link. http://persmin.gov.in/WriteData/Circula ... 009-IR.pdf

This is just the basic information and please feel free to ask as many questions as you may have. I would also request other members to contribute in terms of addresses and other state specific procedures.

The authority has to provide the information within 30 days of receiving the application. In cases the information is sought which are essential and pertains to life and liberty the authorities have to act within 48 hours of receiving the information. But the specific reasons have to be mentioned in the application.

What information do we need:

To prove our case we ned the following information:

1. Number of arms licenses issued since 2000
2. The use of licensed arms in crimes.
3. The number of MPs and MLAs in possession of arms license in each state, this information can be then compared to their criminal record if any that is publicly available on the election commissions website.
4. No. of criminal incidents in which illegal arms have been used.
5. the no. of illegal small arms seized by the authorities since 2000.
6. No. of cases pending for illegal possession of firearms under the Arms Act.

As of now I can only think of these but will keep updating this post regularly.

I hope this information makes sense and let me know in case you need more explanation or formats.

I will be more than happy to draft more applications as and when required by any member of the forum.

Cheers!!!!!!
Cheers!!!!!!
--
Manmeet

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Re: Exercise your right: “the right to information”

Post by Anand » Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:18 pm

Way to go manmeet :D
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Re: Exercise your right: “the right to information”

Post by goodboy_mentor » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:57 am

I would like to put my 2 cents in by the following and requesting all members/readers of IFG for inputs so that this idea of raimanmeet can be successfully implemented:

A) Since we have more than 600 districts in India, if we try to get data from each and every district we need a dedicated RTI activist in every district. The process may become extremely slow and cumbersome. It is possible that IFG members may not be present in every district or they are concentrated in a few districts. What if the information is sought at the state level from, like from the office of state home secretary. In this way we would need about only 35 volunteers, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_st ... ia_by_area) who would pursue the RTI applications from state capitals. In this way it will be easier to manage and track the progress of
work.

B) I would like to re-frame the questions so that the answers we get, serve to prove our point in court:

1a. Number of arms licenses applications received since 2000
1b. Number of arms license applications rejected since 2000 and reasons for rejection.
1c. Number of arms licenses issued since 2000
1d. Average time taken for issue of an arms license

2a. The number of MPs and MLAs in possession of arms license in each state.
2b. The number of arms license applications rejected for M.Ps and MLAs and reasons for rejection.
2c. Average time taken for issue of arms license for MPs and MLAs.

3a. Number of criminal incidents in which illegal arms(including firearms, explosives, sharp and blunt edged weapons etc.) have been used since 2000.
3b. Number of criminal incidents in which licensed arms have been used since 2000.
3c. Number of illegal arms(including firearms, explosives, sharp and blunt edged weapons etc.) seized by the authorities since 2000.

4a. Number of cases filed since 2000 for illegal possession of firearms under the Arms Act 1959
4b. Number of cases acquitted since 2000 for illegal possession of firearms under the Arms Act 1959
4c. Number of cases convicted since 2000 for illegal possession of firearms under the Arms Act 1959

Since MHA is the main problem creator and will be the main respondent to the case, I feel following questions also need to be asked from MHA:

1a. What is the information that lead to the issuance of notification xyz?(We need to find out all the problem notifications and ask question for each of them)
1b. What is the information that lead to the formulation of the present "Arms and Ammunition Policy"?

The stated objectives of the Arms Act 1959, which amongst others states as following of it's primary objectives to be:
(i) that weapons for self-defence are available for all citizens under license unless their antecedents or propensities do not entitled them for the privilege; and
(ii) that firearms required for training purposes and ordinary civilian use are made more easily available on permits;
(iii) to co-ordinate the rights of the citizen with the necessity of maintaining law and order and avoiding fifth-column activities in the country;
(iv) to recognize the right of the State to requisition the services of every citizen in national emergencies. The licensees and permit holders for firearms, shikaris, target shooters and rifle-men in general(in appropriate age groups) will be of great service-to the country in emergencies, if the Government can properly mobilise and utilise them
1c. Please provide information about steps taken by MHA by the way of notifications/circulars/orders/policies etc. that help achieve the objective (i) of Arms Act 1959 as stated above.
1d. Please provide information about steps taken by MHA by the way of notifications/circulars/orders/policies etc. that undermine the objective (i) of Arms Act 1959 as stated above.
1e. Please provide information about steps taken by MHA by the way of notifications/circulars/orders/policies etc. that help achieve the objective (ii) of Arms Act 1959 as stated above.
1f. Please provide information about steps taken by MHA by the way of notifications/circulars/orders/policies etc. that undermine the objective (ii) of Arms Act 1959 as stated above.
1g. Please provide information about steps taken by MHA by the way of notifications/circulars/orders/policies etc. that help achieve the objective (iii) of Arms Act 1959 as stated above.
1h. Please provide information about steps taken by MHA by the way of notifications/circulars/orders/policies etc. that help achieve the objective (iv) of Arms Act 1959 as stated above.
1i. Please provide information about steps taken by MHA by the way of notifications/circulars/orders/policies etc. that help achieve the objectives (i), (ii), (iii) & (iv) of Arms Act 1959 as stated above by the way of ensuring the price of rifles, pistols, revolvers & their ammunition remain within the buying reach of common citizens or at least stay at par with those prevailing in international market.
Before we venture further we have to make sure that our efforts are organized and well planned. Filing multiple RTI applications will not only waste time but also money and other resources that could have been put to better use. For this I would like to form groups of people from different parts of the country as follows:
Ladies & Gentlemen, let us all get organized in a systematic way and set the work in motion...............
Last edited by goodboy_mentor on Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Exercise your right: “the right to information”

Post by amit888_2000 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:11 pm

Manmeet nice move, just one more effort,
why not make few applications in the right manner, and post it here as attachment's, who ever wishes, to proceed, just add his details and put an RTI....

this becomes more easier, and focus,
sometimes either we ask too much what is required, or fail in our goal by asking what is required exactly, I mean what should be our question ?....

)))cheers!!!

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Re: Exercise your right: “the right to information”

Post by goodboy_mentor » Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:44 pm

I have further added questions 1g, 1h, 1i for MHA in my previous post above. AFAIK MHA has done nothing to implement the objectives of Arms Act, on the contrary it has done everything to undermine the act of parliament. Therefore it is no wonder that law abiding citizens are denied the God given right for self defense resulting in criminals of all manner having a merry time.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Exercise your right: “the right to information”

Post by grewal » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:22 pm

I can put in RTI for Ludhiana district. But manmeet are the officials really obligated to give us the data from the year 2000 onwards there must be some tab on the period in question . And who will give information regarding MLA's and MP's , and regarding weapons used in illegal activities.
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Re: Exercise your right: “the right to information”

Post by goodboy_mentor » Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:02 am

I can put in RTI for Ludhiana district.
Let us wait for reply and confirmation from raimanmeet as well as other legal brains of the forum, whether RTIs need to be done at district level or it is better to do at state level. As I have already mentioned, we will need more than 600 volunteers for district level RTIs and only around 35 volunteers for state level RTIs. Or would it not be better to do RTI with MHA itself, since MHA is the main problem creator(and it must have also acted on some information which it already has in its possession), is supposed to be the main respondent in case. Amit888_2000 has also given a very good idea and also asked very relevant questions.
But manmeet are the officials really obligated to give us the data from the year 2000 onwards there must be some tab on the period in question . And who will give information regarding MLA's and MP's ,
Officials are obligated to give reply within 30 days with the information, if they do not have information, then they should reply that they do not have information. If some other department has information, they should pass it on to that department.
and regarding weapons used in illegal activities.
AFAIK National Crime Records Bureau should have information for national level, Headquarters of each State Police should have information for state level, Headquarters of each District Police as well as District Criminal Courts should have this information for district level.
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Exercise your right: “the right to information”

Post by raimanmeet » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:03 am

I apologize for the delay in reverting back. Have been away from the computer. Just wanted to take a break in Florida away from phone calls, internet, mails and other 21st century accessories.

Well The efforts should be coordinated and well directed. I am surprised that not many people have participated in this, I don;t know why. This reminds me of one of the initial pm I received stating that majority of members here are just to nod their heads and do not wish to actually do anything.

Nevertheless I would continue the efforts and I am sure that even if we are just a handful, we can make a difference.

@ Good_boy: We might not have members in every district, but we can concentrate only on those districts where we have someone. The RTI applications filed at the state level will not be of much use as at the state level the information is neither gathered nor are they responsible for issuing licenses unless its a recommendation for a NPB sent by the district administration and then forwarded by the Home Secretary of the respective state.

The questions you have framed are great. I was short on time so just gave a small idea of what we need. We can go in very minute details. The questions framed by you are a great effort and I appreciate and value your time and insight.
1a. What is the information that lead to the issuance of notification xyz?(We need to find out all the problem notifications and ask question for each of them)
1b. What is the information that lead to the formulation of the present "Arms and Ammunition Policy"?
Such questions of information would never be answered. We all need to understand that the Govt. comprises of three organs.
A. The Legislature: This includes Parliament and the state legislature. When a law is framed or passed by them it is debated and the copies of the debates are available either online or at the respective libraries.

B. The Executive: This is the branch that we call the Govt. They enforce the laws. A few laws such as the Arms Act gives wide powers to the Executive to frame rules to govern the enforcement of laws. Every notification in the beginning does state the under which law and by whose authority it is passed. It is the free will of the executive to frame notifications. There is no debate on these notifications. The minister or the secretary many issue notification as per his free will under the specific act.

C. The Judiciary: It is the watchdog and ensures that no law is passed by the Legislature that is not in conformity with the Constitution. It also checks the abuses of power by the Executive. When we approach the court we will be challenging the notifications issued by the Executive by arguing that they are not in conformity with the Act i.e. the Arms Act.

Therefore we cannot question the notification, but usually before a notification is issued experts and other people's opinions are taken into account. We can try getting a copy of the file which includes such opinions or recommendations. So we need to amend and reframe the question accordingly.
National Crime Records Bureau should have information for national level,


The national crime records bureau does consolidate data about crime under different categories and IPC sections but does not disclose the exact information we want. We want the number of legal and illegal weapons involved but there is no data collection on this. The data is collected about the number of cases filed under the arms act or under the IPC like armed robbery. They will also include infringement of laws while manufacturing weapons and weapons like swords etc.

@ Grewal:

I am happy to see your enthusiasm. Feel free to file an RTI and share your experiences. But at the same time do let us know if you have filed the RTI so that any other member does not repeat the exercise.

@ Amit:

I have posted a rough draft. Give me a few more days and I will draft a formal RTI letter and will post it here.

In the meanwhile let me contact Mundair and seek his views on the RTI process.
Cheers!!!!!!
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Re: Exercise your right: “the right to information”

Post by vkjalan » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:05 am

Great initiative. Ok here goes a suggestion why doesn't someone take the responsibility to frame all these RTI applications on behalf of the members who volunteer to come forth and send RTI applications. because most of us are not aware how this needs to be done and would not be sure if its done in the right way.

At least i volunteer for the same and also the cost involved in the same i am ready to bear it. Just let me know if this can be done and the money shall be transferred to your bank account. Because every small step counts in making big differences.

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Re: Exercise your right: “the right to information”

Post by sa_ali » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:35 am

Any help required in Delhi, count me in. We can surely spread the word about it to others too.

One suggestion, if you want other members to read this also, then please change the title of this thread or start another thread with title, Help wanted in filing RTI and then we can also also PM to individuals whom we know will help us.

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Re: Exercise your right: “the right to information”

Post by abhrankash » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:24 am

goodboy_mentor wrote:I would like to put my 2 cents in by the following and requesting all members/readers of IFG for inputs so that this idea of raimanmeet can be successfully implemented:

A) Since we have more than 600 districts in India, if we try to get data from each and every district we need a dedicated RTI activist in every district. The process may become extremely slow and cumbersome. It is possible that IFG members may not be present in every district or they are concentrated in a few districts. What if the information is sought at the state level from, like from the office of state home secretary. In this way we would need about only 35 volunteers, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_st ... ia_by_area) who would pursue the RTI applications from state capitals. In this way it will be easier to manage and track the progress of
work.

B) I would like to re-frame the questions so that the answers we get, serve to prove our point in court:

1a. Number of arms licenses applications received since 2000
1b. Number of arms license applications rejected since 2000 and reasons for rejection.
1c. Number of arms licenses issued since 2000
1d. Average time taken for issue of an arms license

2a. The number of MPs and MLAs in possession of arms license in each state.
2b. The number of arms license applications rejected for M.Ps and MLAs and reasons for rejection.
2c. Average time taken for issue of arms license for MPs and MLAs.

3a. Number of criminal incidents in which illegal arms(including firearms, explosives, sharp and blunt edged weapons etc.) have been used since 2000.
3b. Number of criminal incidents in which licensed arms have been used since 2000.
3c. Number of illegal arms(including firearms, explosives, sharp and blunt edged weapons etc.) seized by the authorities since 2000.

4a. Number of cases filed since 2000 for illegal possession of firearms under the Arms Act 1959
4b. Number of cases acquitted since 2000 for illegal possession of firearms under the Arms Act 1959
4c. Number of cases convicted since 2000 for illegal possession of firearms under the Arms Act 1959

Since MHA is the main problem creator and will be the main respondent to the case, I feel following questions also need to be asked from MHA:

1a. What is the information that lead to the issuance of notification xyz?(We need to find out all the problem notifications and ask question for each of them)
1b. What is the information that lead to the formulation of the present "Arms and Ammunition Policy"?

The stated objectives of the Arms Act 1959, which amongst others states as following of it's primary objectives to be:
(i) that weapons for self-defence are available for all citizens under license unless their antecedents or propensities do not entitled them for the privilege; and
(ii) that firearms required for training purposes and ordinary civilian use are made more easily available on permits;
(iii) to co-ordinate the rights of the citizen with the necessity of maintaining law and order and avoiding fifth-column activities in the country;
(iv) to recognize the right of the State to requisition the services of every citizen in national emergencies. The licensees and permit holders for firearms, shikaris, target shooters and rifle-men in general(in appropriate age groups) will be of great service-to the country in emergencies, if the Government can properly mobilise and utilise them
1c. Please provide information about steps taken by MHA by the way of notifications/circulars/orders/policies etc. that help achieve the objective (i) of Arms Act 1959 as stated above.
1d. Please provide information about steps taken by MHA by the way of notifications/circulars/orders/policies etc. that undermine the objective (i) of Arms Act 1959 as stated above.
1e. Please provide information about steps taken by MHA by the way of notifications/circulars/orders/policies etc. that help achieve the objective (ii) of Arms Act 1959 as stated above.
1f. Please provide information about steps taken by MHA by the way of notifications/circulars/orders/policies etc. that undermine the objective (ii) of Arms Act 1959 as stated above.
1g. Please provide information about steps taken by MHA by the way of notifications/circulars/orders/policies etc. that help achieve the objective (iii) of Arms Act 1959 as stated above.
1h. Please provide information about steps taken by MHA by the way of notifications/circulars/orders/policies etc. that help achieve the objective (iv) of Arms Act 1959 as stated above.
1i. Please provide information about steps taken by MHA by the way of notifications/circulars/orders/policies etc. that help achieve the objectives (i), (ii), (iii) & (iv) of Arms Act 1959 as stated above by the way of ensuring the price of rifles, pistols, revolvers & their ammunition remain within the buying reach of common citizens or at least stay at par with those prevailing in international market.
Before we venture further we have to make sure that our efforts are organized and well planned. Filing multiple RTI applications will not only waste time but also money and other resources that could have been put to better use. For this I would like to form groups of people from different parts of the country as follows:
Ladies & Gentlemen, let us all get organized in a systematic way and set the work in motion...............

Dear sir,
Right now I am putting up in Delhi but if talk of Orissa I can tell you name of some MP'S and MLA'S of the state who posses illegal arm (use to be at the back seat of Pojero but even the commissioner of the BHUBANESWAR do not dare to stop the vehicle even inside the state Secretariat also)


I mean it is known to every body that he woes a AK-56 but no body even dare to do say any thing against that man.
ABHRANKASH

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Winston Churchill

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Re: Exercise your right: “the right to information”

Post by goodboy_mentor » Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:43 pm

if talk of Orissa I can tell you name of some MP'S and MLA'S of the state who posses illegal arm
This is not just common to Orissa, this is happening in almost every state. In areas where law and order is bad common people are also compelled to keep arms for their self defense. Every body knows that Arms Act is not preventing any criminal from acquiring any arms, but still many are silent. The only difference Arms Act makes is that police does not say anything to MPs/MLAs, it harasses common people. These kinds of laws are mainly created to harass political supporters belonging to opposition political parties. The condition of common people becomes miserable in such situations. Just read on such example highlighted at http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 96#p118428 If you want to understand the deeper meanings may read http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 96#p118428 and http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=225
"If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your State, it probably means that you built your State on my land" - Musa Anter, Kurdish writer, assassinated by the Turkish secret services in 1992

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Re: Exercise your right: “the right to information”

Post by captrakshitsharma » Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:43 pm

So what is the next step...... lets do something ... Any lawyers here who may wanna lend a helping hand and draft a standard format for these questions and explain the procedure in detail.
We can file the rti in our individual districts...
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