The world is forgetting..

[Sakobav]

xl_target

One connection was the brave SOE Indian descent lady officer Noor Inayat Khan and descendant of Tipu Sultan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noor_Inayat-Khan

There were Indians fighting in near abouts of that Sector albeit from Axis side they were part of Netaji Bose's Indian Free Legion or Azad Hind Force basically recruited from Indian POWs by Netaji. There is no literature how these folks were treated once captured by Allies , there are reports they were summarily executed by French forces, I did read a reference to few POW who were interned in Italy by Brits along with Sardar Ajit Singh uncle of Shahid Bhagat Singh.. The following link even shows Desert Fox Rommel with this unit.


http://www.feldgrau.com/azadhind.html
An excerpt
" The Legion Freies Indien was deployed in France on coastal defense duties in the area of Lacanau near Bordeaux where they were inspected by Generalfeldmarschall Rommel (who was, of course, responsible for their original capture!) in April 1944.[50] On 8th August 1944 the Free Indian Legion (now comprising about 2,300 men), like all the national legions of the German Army, was transferred to the control of the Waffen-SS now being known as the Indische Freiwilligen Legion der Waffen SS and receiving a new commanding officer: SS Oberführer Heinz Bertling.[51] Despite the change in authority from Army to Waffen SS, the Indian Legion continued to use Army ranks and uniforms. The notorious SS map of February 1945 does show an SS collar patch featuring a tiger's head for the Free Indian Legion but it is unlikely that it was even manufactured and almost certainly it was never actually worn.[52]

The Legion remained at Lacenau until over two months after the Allied Invasion of Normandy. However, following the Allied breakout from the Normandy bridgehead and with the growing threat of Allied landings on the Mediterranean coast of France, the Indian Legion was at risk of being cut off and so on 15th August 1944 (the same day that the feared Allied landings actually took place on the French Riviera) the Legion left Lacanau to move back to Germany. The first part of their journey was by rail to Poitiers where they were attacked by French FFI (Forces Françaises de l'Interieur) "Maquis" forces and a number of men were wounded. The French Resistance continued to harass the Legion when at the end of August it moved again to Allier via Chatrou, this time moving by road. The town of Dun on the Berry Canal was reached by the beginning of September and here the Indian Legion was opposed by French regular forces. In the resulting street fighting the Indische Freiwilligen Legion der Waffen SS suffered its first death in combat: Leutnant Ali Khan, later to be interred with full military honors at Sancoin cemetery. The Legion continued its withdrawal through Luzy marching at night but took more casualties in ambushes including Unteroffizier Kalu Ram and Gefreiter Mela Ram. The Loire was crossed and the Indians headed for Dijon. A short engagement was fought against Allied armor at Nuits St. Georges.[53]

[Vikram]

How very interesting,Navi.I never heard of this side of the story.Indian soldiers donning Nazi uniforms.I watched a programme once about some of the British soldiers (PoWs) joining the Nazis and similar units like the Indian legion being formed etc.


Best-
Vikram

[xl_target]

MoA,
I just can't find any evidence of Indian troops on the beaches on D Day. However, you are correct in stating that lots of Indian troops fought in Europe, especially during the long slog up through Italy. I even read a story somewhere that claimed that Indian troops were stopped outside Paris, so other Allied troops could be the first to advance into Paris. I wish I could remember where I read that but it was a while back. So it was sweet to see Indian troops being given the honor of leading the Bastille Day parade in Paris last year.

ngrewal,
Excellent link! Thanks.
Many in the INA and the Free Indian Legion were not very effective. Especially those among the former POW's, there was a deep sense of shame, of being "namak haram'. Consequently, the units were never really trusted by the Germans and never committed to a full scale battle. The INA troops were decimated outside Imphal and were never effective after that. SC Bose expected to return to India and take over (after the Japanese won). He was wrong! The army would have refused to serve under him. In the regular army, because they had sworn an oath of allegiance, there was an absolute contempt for those who joined the INA.

[hamiclar01]

I think there was a flurry in the British press last year when Obama turned up. Otherwise, there is always a steady stream of visitors visiting the beaches.
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa24 ... C_0070.jpg
.....usually avoiding D day anniversaries due to the rush.

xltarget, the American cementery in Normandy not only overlooks the channel, but Omaha beach. You get an idea of the excellent German defences on the buffs that were responsible for the bloodbath.
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa24 ... C_0104.jpg

Speaking of Noor Inayat Khan, when we visited Germany, we made a trip to Dachau concentration camp and found a memorial plaque to her name. I belive she was tortured and executed here
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa24 ... C_0396.jpg

Viks, I was about to do a German travelogue , pretty much similar to the Normandy one, but ran out of steam

So, do not loose heart. Just because the gutterpress have forgotten something does not mean the enthusiasts have too. During my pilgrimages , I met many like minded people.

[Sakobav]

xltarget

A bit OT but history is written by the victors and INA didnt fare too well because of other issues logistics supplies etc. Then there are two sides to the story had Netaji Bose survived he would have been a force to reckon with maybe could have stymied the partition at best but would have been a great alternate to Congress and Muslim league. It was pathetic how he was manipulated to leave Congress. Why did Indian soldiers turn over ? If you read conduct of Singapore British Command the untrained Indian soldiers were simply thrown against the seasoned Japanese army and to make matters worst British High Command showed no stomach for war and bungled up tactics big time and underestimated their adversary. They simply rolled over to a smaller Japanese force instead of fighting and hence lost respect in the eyes of the common soldiers. INA rebel forces along with Indian Navy mutiny was enough to convince Brits their time was up. 'Namak haram' they werent IMHO they werent..

Check this story of Tokyo Cadets
'The author of this book, Air Commodore Ramesh Sakharam Benegal was a war hero and a legend in his time. He was the wartime Commanding Officer of No.106 SR Squadron during the 1971 Ops. He personally undertook many hazardous sorties over hostile territory both before and during the war. His effort was recognised with the award of a Maha Vir Chakra, India's second highest gallantry award in the face of the enemy.

It is no secret that a career as a fighter pilot in the IAF is full of adventure, danger and excitement. While most career officers can narrate quite a few tales about episodes in uniform, they would be hard pressed to tell any from the time before they joined up. Air Commodore Benegal falls in that rare category of officers who have lived a full life - even before donning the IAF blues.

Before he joined the Indian Air Force, Air Commodore Benegal was a member of the Indian National Army (INA) - he was one of the original "Tokyo Cadets" - selected for Officer Training in Japan at the height of World War II. As an Officer Cadet, Benegal opted for flying training with the Imperial Japanese Army Air Force Academy , but the end of WW2 cut short those plans and he had to return to India to be interned by the British."
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Books ... Japan.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Boys - Couldnt convert into English

[xl_target]

There were tens of thousands of Indian Army troops who were taken prisoner by the Japanese. Only a small percentage joined the INA. When a soldier pledges himself by taking an oath (as all regular army soldiers did), betraying that oath, renders him liable to have various labels applied to him. Deserter, Traitor and "namak haram" were some that were used. These are not just my words. It had always been thus in the British Indian Army. Loyalty, courage and honor have always been hallmarks of the Indian soldier and were important to them. The regular Indian army was small. Expansions in wartime led to a huge army being created. After the WW2 was over, the inevitable reduction in strength left the army in the hands of many of those same (pre-war)regular-army officers and men.
While it can be said that those not in the Indian army who joined the INA were motivated by Patriotism, the regular army had no time for the oath breakers, whatever their motivations were. How many of the former Indian Army POW's who joined the INA were allowed back into the army after the war? I don't believe there were any. Many of them were tried for treason and sentenced to death or life imprisonment. I had relatives who served in the Indian Army who were Japanese POW's who never had anything good to say about the ones who broke their oath, to put it very very mildly. These relatives, by the way, rejoined the army after they were liberated from the camps. Many, however, didn't make it out of those camps.

Even if NC Bose had lived, the army would still have sided with the properly constituted government at the time. Which, at the time the British left India was headed by Jawaharhlal Nehru. All of them were trained by the British Army and could not or would not have done otherwise. Another thing to remember, Mahatma Gandhi did not see eye to eye with SC Bose and in those days, what the Mahatma said was basically gospel. I am a Bengali and I have spoken to many of the older generation of Bengalis who had little good to say about SC Bose. I believe, he would have had a hard time getting the full support of his own State, much less the rest of India. You're right, that history is written by the victors. In fact after Independence, there was quite a movement to create Indian heroes for the History textbooks but many of the true heroes were never held up as an example.

If you read the accounts about the POW's in German hands who formed the "Freies Indien", etc., under the Germans, they were considered unreliable mainly because many were plagued by guilt in betraying their oath and were ambivalent about their current position. WW2 history is one of my hobbies but I have never studied the INA in detail, just in general. This is mainly because they were never a serious threat to the British Indian Army as was shown at Imphal.

[Sakobav]

xl_target

Thats an interesting perspective about INA and Netaji Bose. One thing is we cant be judgmental on why Indian POWs enrolled in INA. Its true many of these officers/jawans werent reinstated into the Army and but Second world war and war in general are very tough and confusing times and folks did what they had to but INA had a noble goal in mind.

You are correct there were quite few officers who didnt join INA, one of such officer was late Lieutenant General Harbakhsh Singh later GOC Western command in 1965 war, was hospitalized during the WWII and another officer Capt Ansari was executed by Japs in Hong Kong because he refused to join and was said to be related to some royal family of India and was awarded George Cross posthumous. Japanese conduct in Andaman Nicobar Islands was terrible they slaughtered thousands of Indians due to one reason or the other and INA administrator was helpless at stopping the carnage. They even executed few Indian national leaders serving their sentence in Pot Blair jail.

There are two sides to a story but one cant play down role Netaji had and the arduous journey he took to Germany via Kabul/Soviet Union and then to survive that German Submarine trip to Japan with British having deciphered the enigma code and all. Indian army was viewed as 'mercenary' by Indian leaders and in the end IA prevailed in cashiering INA officers on some pretext. Still INA has its place in Indian History and so does Netaji in India's struggle for freedom. INA was never a threat in material sense but the Idea of armed revolution was something that definitely bothered Brits, be it Ghadar revolution, German Conspiracy in WWI (Bagha Jatin was martyred in this fight - OT Bagha means tIger and he had killed or fought with a Tiger bare handed with a dagger thats a separate saga) both started in US.Dont you think very thought of Indian masses uprising irrespective of their creed culture and religion under one flag across the country would have spread like a fire across the nation destroyed the cornerstone of Brits policy of dive and rule. At any give time there werent more that few thousand of Brits ruling over millions of Indians. INA was aimed directly at the one entity that made this possible the Indian army and there were quite a few such mutinies which were put down e.g. 1915 Singapore Mutiny ( Baluch regiment), I guess even Kumaon regiments few units also rebelled. Point is INA was simply extension of Ghadar movement or Bagha Jatin's plan to have Indian national army to fight the Brits from WWI. Netaji was in the mold of revolutionaries Bagha Jatin, Rasbehari Bose and others from Bengal. Netaji did clear ICS exams and then chose to forgo all that for sake of country..incredible sacrifice.Yes there are other leaders/resvolutionaries who are unsung heroes..I was reading Shaheed Bhagat Singhs notes and posting a clipping from his diary

Soldiers & Thought

If my soldiers were to begin to reflect ; not one of them would be in the ranks.

[ Fredrick the Great ] 502 { 366 new ed}

: 0 :

The Noblest Fallen

The Noblest have fallen , they were buried

Obscurely in a deserted place.

No tears fell over them

Strange hands carried them to the grave

No cross , no enclouser , and no tomb stone tell

Their glorious names.

Grass grows over them , a feeble blade

bending low keeps the secret,

The sole witness were the surging waves ,

which furiously beat against the shore

But even they the mighty waves could

Not carry farewell greetings to

The distant home.

[ V N Figner]

Best

[timmy]

Gentlemen: May I say, I am listening and learning to you both. For someone struggling to get my arms around Indian History, your discussion is very interesting, especially this topic. The one thing I find that I learn about Indian history is that the more I learn, the less I find out that I know! However, this does not at all detract from the pleasure of gaining the few nuggets I have acquired, dimmed my desire to learn some more, or eclipsed my interest in the slightest.

Matter of fact, I was just discussing another such matter with a very erudite friend yesterday evening.

I did not mean to interrupt, so I will return to lurking this most interesting conversation.

[m24]

Source: http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/0 ... ing-d-day/

d23_0p012623.jpg

Must see all the pics here: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/0 ... s_ago.html

Regards

[nagarifle]

i got a copy of princess spy, if any one wants to read it pm with your address and will post it on. only on one condition that is you must pass it on to someone who wants to read it with the same condition.