Man-eater

[shooter]

For the first time i see ifg people not trying one-up manship and actually working towards ideas and meaningful discussions.(nature/conservationrelated).

Thanks for starting the thread m24.

Well done and thanks to others.

[m24]

Thanks shooter. Now if only anybody could get our bag of ideas to someone responsible who's already in the system and start getting it implemented (if it's not implemented already). I don't know anyone, hence the problem.

Inder, my responses are that of a layman. I'll be the 1st to tell you and all that I am no expert. I had to open the dictionary to check for ungulates. W.r.t to all your queries, my solution would be to break them into groups and move them into separate national parks under supervision. Supervision would not stop only with their rehabilitation, it would remain in place till it is decided that the rehabilitated animals are responding to their new environment. Wherever the area of the park can be increased, the same can be done to accommodate the large nos. If neither of this works, and the nos. are still increasing with alarming rate, then I have no response.

Why I didn't mention culling as the final solution is due to a simple fact. We don't do the same with humans. Why should we do the same with them which we can't do unto ourselves.

Regards

[hvj1]

Why I didn't mention culling as the final solution is due to a simple fact. We don't do the same with humans. Why should we do the same with them which we can't do unto ourselves.

Precisey my sentiments and views.

[srswamy]

Why I didn't mention culling as the final solution is due to a simple fact. We don't do the same with humans. Why should we do the same with them which we can't do unto ourselves.

Awesome! Simple and straight answer.

[kanwar76]

Why should we do the same with them which we can't do unto ourselves.

Because we are Humans and they are animals, you may find it disturbing but thats how it is.

Then may be i am too practical.

-Inder

[m24]

Because we are Humans and they are animals, you may find it disturbing but thats how it is.

Then may be i am too practical.

-Inder

I don't find it disturbing at all. I am very much in touch with the reality as to how things are today. But there's no harm in thinking about the less opportune creatures on this planet. And that's where we create a balance. You with your thinking and me with mine. It's only the indifferent one's that need to wake up, wake up fast to reality.

Regards

[srswamy]

As for maneaters and what make them one, who has better brains and should know better about going in harms way ? Man or the Cat ?

@Manish -- How did I miss this line of yours? Cool one, I say!!

Because we are Humans and they are animals, you may find it disturbing but thats how it is.

@Kanwar,

Some points to ponder! What distinguishes us to consider ourselves to be superior to the animals? Per the evolution chronology, Dinosours lived on the earth, multiplied, many of them killed the other species as though this earth is only for them, but finally, became extinct!! Do we see any different behaviour in the way we are encroching the habitats of animals? That said -- we're in NO WAY superior to any living being.

Moreover, our ancestors were animals too, please don't forget that!!

If we have to consider all these facts, they have higher proportion of rights than us, because they have been here for long. We're the newcomers, trying to snatch everything, claim everything. This kind of thought will now be disturbing some hunting enthusiasts here, but in reality -- it is the truth! Live and let live

[kanwar76]

Because we are Humans and they are animals, you may find it disturbing but thats how it is.

@Kanwar,

Some points to ponder! What distinguishes us to consider ourselves to be superior to the animals? Per the evolution chronology, Dinosours lived on the earth, multiplied, many of them killed the other species as though this earth is only for them, but finally, became extinct!! Do we see any different behaviour in the way we are encroching the habitats of animals? That said -- we're in NO WAY superior to any living being.

Moreover, our ancestors were animals too, please don't forget that!!

If we have to consider all these facts, they have higher proportion of rights than us, because they have been here for long. We're the newcomers, trying to snatch everything, claim everything. This kind of thought will now be disturbing some hunting enthusiasts here, but in reality -- it is the truth! Live and let live

I am not getting in to debate of who is superior and who is not? I am not saying that loss of habitat because of humans is a good thing or way to go; I am also disturbed/sad for this as some bleeding hearts are but at the same time I am also practical. I don't know any way of making villagers love ungulates or predators unless they are getting benefited by them in any way. How are you going to reason with a guy who lost his crop to some wild boars or neelgai's? Till when government is going to pay compensation for loss of crop, limbs and life to keep some over populated animals alive and how right it is at a time when millions of INDIANS sleep without one time meal in this country. Just for your information only Madhya Pradesh spends hundreds of crores every year as compensation to farmers.

Don’t you think we can save that money and earn some more so that animals also live peacefully in their designated areas and so do humans?

And please keep this dinosaur stories to yourself, I don't think much time is left to be pseudo sentimental. Hunting is banned since three decades now and so called eco-tourism is tried enough, report card is there for everyone to see. Why not try something new now?

-Inder

[srswamy]

Kanwar,

I am not getting in to debate of who is superior and who is not?

If the above statement you made holds good, then you are going back on your previous statement

Because we are Humans and they are animals, you may find it disturbing but thats how it is.

Before negating it, logically analyse the premise this statement was made as a reply to m24's point of view, if you can.

I am also disturbed/sad for this as some bleeding hearts are but at the same time I am also practical.

-- sorry to say, but this is exactly what you've mentioned as pseudo sentimental, thanks for accepting it. If at all, one has a capability to be really sentimental, one wouldn't have been asking trivial questions, but would have got into action, constructively.

I don't know any way of making villagers love ungulates or predators unless they are getting benefited by them in any way.

-- Think. Every question has an answer. It is all about the person's mindset whether he wants to find an answer or not.

Till when government is going to pay compensation for loss of crop, limbs and life to keep some over populated animals alive and how right it is at a time when millions of INDIANS sleep without one time meal in this country.

-- Mixing up two problems here.

And please keep this dinosaur stories to yourself

Oh yeah, thanks a lot, I always keep goo teachings to myself and I believe in right information, at right time to the right people. Sorry for quoting it here and thanks for giving it back to me

And to your earlier questions

How are we going to stop ungulates from straying into farms and destroying crops?
How are we going to control population of Axis Deer so that it is not occupying the land for Black bucks?
How are we going to stop Elephant's population which is on the rise and becoming a threat to life and limb of people living near by Jungles?

What remains are a few tiny islands of forests, where wildlife is barely able to exist in the face of continued onslaughts being made by mining / timber / industrial projects. Then try asking those same questions - not from the human perspective - but from the animals' perspective.

What you should now be asking is:

1. How are we going to stop humans from encroaching into forests and destroying wildlife?

2. How are we going to control human population so that it is not compelling the Axis Deer to occupy the habitats of Black bucks? You're talking about 2 species here. In a natural phenomenon, they may even live in mutual harmony, but the encroachment is playing with a whole eco-system here!!! Why aren't we questioning that?

3. How are we going to stop building towns and dams and reservoirs on areas that have always been traditional migration corridors for elephants ? Also why do we think that the population of elephants is on the rise and they are becoming a threat to life and limb of people, when actually it is the people living near by Jungles who are creating conflict with elephants in the name of protecting their crop / farms which they have built on encroached forest land?

If at all anyone thinks it is alright to kil the ungulates, than to think about protecting the "ill-gotten treasure" of their agricultural lands, who basically hunt the deers, and other ungulates, in the name of controlling them from spoiling the crops of farmers are actually poachers, who should be reported to the police and punished for a major crime they are committing.

I've just realized, Having them arrested could be a wonderful start to a career in 'committed' conservation, rather than being an "arm-chair" conservationist. Aren't we trying something "new" here??

[shooter]

Dear Inder, i am with srswamy here.

A good way of conservation would be:

Convert all the fields back into forests.

Stop the building of new towns

Stop the construction of newer highways

increase the forest cover by 1000%

Decrease the human population by 60%

Mandatory for school and college kids to go work in national parks.

Thats NOT armchair conservation for you. These are things that can be practically done.

The millions worth of research backed by results the world over,

the diffrence between overkill, sustainable hunting, culling, density dependent inhibition, viable density, viable polulation, overcrowding etc is nothing; in fact these are excuses given by people who know nothing about conservation.

Please read my post as an addendum to my last post in "question to anti-hunters". Im not copy-pasting lest there be another long discussion about repetition in this already OT thread.