Carrying Shotgun as baggage from India to UK> bringing back

[1905mauser]

Greetings,

Has anyone experience or known of fact, of carrying a shotgun as hold baggage outside of India and then bringing back to India?

To be more specific I am trying to search the "actual" procedure in airport/customs, what forms what details to fill. etc etc. After googling found one link which offers baggage advisory from nic.in website but again its code book how it has been interpreted in the airport is important to understand.

Best regards
Siddharth.

Edit (subject and grammer.)

[MoA]

There are only two situations that I know of where you could get a shotgun in. These are:

1. Transfer of Residence. Get in touch with the Indian Embassy for details.
2. Being a Renkown Shot. In which case you can get it in duty free via UPS.

Search will throw up all kinds of threads for bith scenarios.

[1905mauser]

There are only two situations that I know of where you could get a shotgun in. These are:

1. Transfer of Residence. Get in touch with the Indian Embassy for details.
2. Being a Renkown Shot. In which case you can get it in duty free via UPS.

Search will throw up all kinds of threads for bith scenarios.

May be I wasnt completely explicit.
If I am to travel from Mumbai with my shotgun in India to UK and then bring it back to India with me.
Firearm registered in India travelling with the owner overseas as hold baggage and returning.

Hope I am making more sense now.
Thanks.
Siddharth.

[nagarifle]

hi

this is a very interesting question you have asked. and to be frank, i have not read or heard of any one doing just that. apart from shooting team going overseas.

so since i am not sure what would be required, this is just my uneducated thoughts, so don not take it as gospel.

1/NOC from arms licence issuing office to say that they have no objection,etc.
2/ one would need to give the reason for taking overseas. (which should be acceptable to the customs)

i would advice a RTI asking these question to the Customs, may result in much better response then what i have said.

please keep us posted on your progress, as this is a new subject which we have not come across.

[1905mauser]

hi

this is a very interesting question you have asked. and to be frank, i have not read or heard of any one doing just that. apart from shooting team going overseas.

so since i am not sure what would be required, this is just my uneducated thoughts, so don not take it as gospel.

1/NOC from arms licence issuing office to say that they have no objection,etc.
2/ one would need to give the reason for taking overseas. (which should be acceptable to the customs)

i would advice a RTI asking these question to the Customs, may result in much better response then what i have said.

please keep us posted on your progress, as this is a new subject which we have not come across.

Bureau of Civil Aviation Security website has good write up which I mentioned in my first post, excerpt as below:
http://www.bcasindia.nic.in/passengers/ ... earms.html

"You can carry your authorized or licensed firearm and/or ammunition in the hold baggage after taking the following steps.
You must declare orally or in writing to the airlines about carriage of firearm/ammunition either at the time of check-in if screening of hold-baggage is done after check-in or before security screening of the hold-baggage if it is done prior to check-in. If you fail to declare as above you may be criminally prosecuted.

You must carry a valid license or authorization for carriage of firearm and/or ammunition.

Firearm must be unloaded and packed separately from the ammunition. The screener will check to ensure it. Ammunition should not be carried in loose form and it should be in the proper package. There are restrictions on the quantity of ammunition that can be carried. Please check with your agent or airlines."

I know of one dealer here who has come across an Indian who has done this. Should try to get hold of him and see if he is helpful!
Will keep posted if any new information comes, and appreciate if anyone can input here from their experiences.

cheers
Siddharth

[BJL]

But is that for domestic airline travel, or international airline travel? It doesn't specify. Sounds like standard procedure to transport a weapon domestically via air.

[MoA]

From an airline perspectivve there shouldnt be a difference. What would make it interesting is hoopla through Indian and then the equally frustrating UK authorities.

[1905mauser]

But is that for domestic airline travel, or international airline travel? It doesn't specify. Sounds like standard procedure to transport a weapon domestically via air.

BJL,
For me anything to do with customs = cross border transactions.

I recon you would face customs at international departures/arrival gates. Theres hardly any use for customs for domestic travel. If you have all India license and an domestic traveller then there should be no problem at all.

The difficulty is only with crossing borders (indeed legally). UK customs may be very strict but are transparent and with proper documentation they wont be pedantic as Indian counterparts. What I mean is UK Law is much clearer on those matters at UK airports. Theres a fair chance of coming across a officer who has less experience/knowledge in firearms and customs and travel, which may prove otherwise. To be honest I do not have personal experience with the customs for firearms but can vouch for the Police here. Excellent.

I dont think its impossible, and only a person who has actually done it (travelled Internationally with indian shotgun); can elaborate the details. As far as my destination (when travelling out from India) allows me to carry the India registered shotgun (on UK guest permit) Indian customs should see no problem in it. Now may be I am too optimistic on this.

cheers
Siddharth

-- Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:59 pm --

On the same note.

Say If I was to carry a handgun to UK from India, it is illegal once I arrive in UK. (And supposedly only criminals in UK still have (illegal) access to beautiful small handguns we see plentiful in India. ) Then the customs will have to put it in there bond and return me when I am departing UK. handguns are banned for general public in UK. Instead you get Long barrel Revolvers/pistols. And I mean these are really long! You get a really long rifle like barrel and then a arm support frame of similar length of the barrel attached permanently (no nut/bolt or removable fastening) to the butt of the handgun, which makes it easier to detect in sensitive area scanners. e.g. airport security et al.

Only black powder revolvers are the size of decent handgun which doesnt have these pedantic rules applied to them. I got a .44 black powder LBR in my ticket, and one of those in stainless steel brand new replica is very cheap to buy.

So the point is when carrying form India it is understood that the traveller has done homework/paperwork for destination country and within legal framework. The only feature which is hugely variable in Indian customs. No offense!

cheers
Siddharth.

[nagarifle]

ok let me say this about arriving to UK with arms.
have uk licence. for that arms which you are arriving with. if no uk licence a guest type licence can be had but that has to be applied by a UK citizen before hand, he does not have to be licence holder himself. but has to apply on your behalf.

once this is in place then no problems with the UK customs.

when taking the arms out of the UK, check that the air line allows the carry of arms on flight. go to check in counter, tell them that you have arms, they will take you to customs who will check the arms against the licence if all agrees. they will recorded in their log book that you have taken out the arms. the air line will take the arms and put it on the flight. easy peesy.

-- Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:47 --

this does not apply to hand guns. as pointed out are generally banned. apart from few who are allowed to own hand guns.

[Vikram]

I need to recall and reread earlier posts.If you do a search on this site, this topic was covered.

ASFAIR, You cannot take your firearm out of the country except for repairs or you are competing in a shooting competition. Re UK,It would help you to enquire with your local licensing officer about procedures to carry your licensed firearm from India.Will try to find out more.

Best-
Vikram

[nagarifle]

I need to recall and reread earlier posts.If you do a search on this site, this topic was covered.

ASFAIR, You cannot take your firearm out of the country except for repairs or you are competing in a shooting competition. Re UK,It would help you to enquire with your local licensing officer about procedures to carry your licensed firearm from India.Will try to find out more.

Best-
Vikram

27.2 Under section 17 of the 1988 Act, visitors to Great Britain may, if they are granted the appropriate permit, have in their possession firearms, shot guns or ammunition without holding a certificate. Specifically, they
may have:
a) a visitor’s firearm permit which allows them to have in their possession any firearm, and purchase, acquire or have in their possession any ammunition, to which section 1 of the 1968 Act applies;
b) a visitor’s shot gun permit which allows them to have in their possession, purchase or acquire shot guns (subject
to the restrictions on purchase and acquisition of shot guns with a magazine (see 27.20-27.25 below)). By virtue of
section 5(2)(b) of the 1988 Act, they are exempt from the requirement to produce a shot gun certificate when purchasing ammunition.
27.3 A visitors’ shot gun permit is valid for use throughout Great Britain for a period of up to 12 months, and a visitors’ firearm permit is also similarly valid subject to any territorial condition as to where the firearm may be used (a separate permit for each force area is not required in either case). While it is expected that the permit should only be valid for the duration of the particular visit, there might be circumstances where the police feel
able to issue a pass for a longer period (and this need not be for the full 12 months). A decision will need to be taken to reflect the circumstances of each application, taking account of evidence of planned, future visits and the visitor’s history and character, perhaps on previous shooting trips to this country.
27.4 Visitors from other European Union (EU) states must be in possession of a European Firearms Pass (EFP) in order to be issued with a visitors’ firearm or shot gun permit (see Chapter 29 for more information about these passes). However, an EFP need not be produced if (see also paragraph 29.20): a) the prospective visitor is precluded byreason of residence or other circumstance from being granted an EFP by another EU state; or
b) they are a recognised EU collector ....

27.5 Applications for a visitors’ firearm or shot gun permit will be made by a sponsor to the chief officer of police for the area in which the sponsor resides on the prescribed form of application (form 107) and, in the case of visitors from other EU states, must be accompanied (but see paragraph 29.20) by the visitor’s EFP (section 7(1) of the 1992 Regulations requires the original to be sent to allow the document to be endorsed). In such cases, chief officers should aim to ensure that the application is dealt with as quickly as possible so allowing the original EFP to be returned to the applicant as soon as possible. The sponsor may be a private individual, or may make the pplication as the....

Application
Applications for a visitors’ firearm or shot gun permit will be made by a sponsor to the chief officer of police for the area in which the sponsor resides on the prescribed form of application (form 107) and, in the case of visitors from other EU states, must be accompanied (but see paragraph 29.20) by the visitor’s EFP (section 7(1) of the 1992
Regulations requires the original to be sent to allow the document to be endorsed). In such cases, chief officers should aim to ensure that the application is dealt with as quickly as possible so allowing the original EFP to be
returned to the applicant as soon as possible. The sponsor may be a private individual, or may make the application as the representative of, for example, a club, shooting syndicate, country estate or national shooting organisation. Where the sponsor is a private individual or represents a local shooting organisation, the usual checks should be made as to their bona fides in the same way as for a certificate applicant. Although in most cases private sponsors will themselves be firearm or shot gun certificate holders, this need not necessarily be the case. Particular attention will need to be paid to security arrangements.

VISITORS’ PERMIT PROCEDURES
Dispatch of permits
27.18 The completed permit should be sent to the sponsor who will forward it to the visitor in their country of origin for presentation to HM Customs and Excise on arrival in this country. The visitors’ permit will be accepted in lieu of a Department of Trade and Industry import licence. A visitor must carry their permit with them on leaving
the country for presentation to HM Customs and Excise at the point of departure. An export licence would only be required for onward destinations not covered by the firearms personal effects exception in the Export of Goods (Control) Order (EG(C)O), that is those countries subject to arms embargoes. In some cases, the permit will be
valid for further visits. EU visitors need not declare their firearms to HM Customs and Excise on arrival from, or departure to, another Member State, but must produce their EFP, in which details of their visitor’s permit have been entered, to a HM Customs Officer if asked to do so. Failure to produce the Permit or the EFP would render the
goods liable to detention or seizure.

[amit888_2000]

hi all, I have a DGCA (Director General Civil Aviation)form which need to be filled, and send to DGCA for approval, pls PM ur e-mail address i shall send u the same....

This form we fill while going out of India & carry fire Or Air weapon.....

The procedure is very simple, and you should have a valid reason to take it, + tkt photo copy & all other documents....

total it takes 7-10 days...

this permission is called "permission to Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Air to/from India".

Please remember this permission is airline specific, so book ur tkt first and then apply for the permission with a tkt photocopy, and arms license too...anything else, do ask, pls

))))cheers!!!!!!

[nagarifle]

hi all, I have a DGCA form which need to be filled, and send to DGCA for approval, pls PM ur e-mail address i shall send u the same....

This form we fill while going out of India & carry fire Or Air weapon.....

The procedure is very simple, and you should have a valid reason to take it, + tkt photo copy & all other documents....

total it takes 7-10 days...

would it be possible to upload an attachment as pdf file for all to copy? makes it more easy for all.
thanks

[amit888_2000]

i will send u the e-mail, u upload the file dear, I really dont know how to do it,

u can even take any number of catridges out of india, but there is a specific packing for it....like for eg...

I took 2500 (.32), 3000 (12 bore), & 1500 (.22)........

while going it was included in my permission, & while returning, they counted all the empties and live.....so remember dont bring extra live or empties.......

ok

))))cheers!!!!!!!

-- Tue Apr 13, 2010 14:39 --

Pls remember sometimes airlines like jet, while travelling within india also demands DGCA approval...

like for eg, last to last year i went to Thodupuzha (Muttom), (Kerala) for 52nd National Shooting Championship organized by NRAI .

while going I didnt had permission, as JET dont have there TEAm, I had to cancell my jet flight & book IC - Indian airline, & they instently permitted me, is very comfortable while travelling with air/firearms, as they have there National & international team...

-- Tue Apr 13, 2010 14:55 --

Normally with in India DGCA permission is only required if u taking more than 1 firearm/ air weapon...

I was carrying 3 pistols, and 2 airweapons....so I required........

1 more issue - while taking permission please & please weight ur dangerous good content including the bag to carry very nicely and accurately. Also u can + 2-3 kg......Now this weight is not chargeable to you while going out of India and also while coming in India......

If some one demands excess bagage, pls show him there airline permission, and bagage allowed for the same.....ur other bagage allowance is seperate from this completely, without any doubt...

Also after taking DGCA permission, pls send a copy to the concern airline, with a covering letter, too, and request them to include this permission in ur PNR..(pls take a print out of that PNR ).....so that other country come to know this parcel carry Dangerous Goods, and you, or the Airline, or Any other person, is not panilise, and know in advance......

[mundaire]

Attachments added as per Amit's request...

Cheers!
Abhijeet