Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by kanwar76 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:24 pm

Ticky wrote: Considering that there could be some misuse of legally owned fire arms, even then, I personally feel that there could be very few incidents/casualties as compared to the attack in Mumbai by terrorists.
What kind of misuse Ticky? Can you please elaborate?
What data you have to even suspect what you written above?

Guys please understand loose statements like this from biggest gun forum in INDIA give fodder to anti's.

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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by shooter » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:23 am

:banghead: :banghead:
You want more gun control? Use both hands!

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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by goodboy_mentor » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:04 am

Nothing to feel so frustrated. This matter is also posted at http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts ... hou/64871/ and http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/G ... arc/14131/ let us have faith in the institutions of our country. If matter is presented to Hon'ble Court, definitely a logical and fair decision will be given.

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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by hamiclar01 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:17 am

I think Goodboy mentor's idea is the way forwards. I believe we should come forward and help in any way we can if this matter does reach the courts
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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by nagarifle » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:21 am

goodboy_mentor wrote:Nothing to feel so frustrated. This matter is also posted at http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts ... hou/64871/ and http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/G ... arc/14131/ let us have faith in the institutions of our country. If matter is presented to Hon'ble Court, definitely a logical and fair decision will be given.

:agree:
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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by goodboy_mentor » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:11 am

Does anybody have the text of the concerned order or the link, want to know on what information/data and under what provisions of law this decision was reached to pass this blanket order.

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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by Ticky » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:02 pm

Hi Kanwar!

Chill man! I only used the words "Considering and could" in my statement.

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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by kanwar76 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:11 pm

Ticky wrote:Hi Kanwar!

Chill man! I only used the words "Considering and could" in my statement.
Buddy, you need to understand that same words "Considering" and "Could" got us in the deep poo we are in right now :roll:

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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by goodboy_mentor » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:38 pm

Hi All, I am preparing the following draft, placing here for your inputs all reading this. You may also like to refer http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 834#p91834 Thank you all for your compliments. My intention is for you to provide especially negative comments, so that future problems can be foreseen as far as possible and it can be improved upon, eliminating any legal holes in it:
:
:..PETITIONER

VERSUS

UNION OF INDIA
THROUGH ITS SECRETARY
MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS
NORTH BLOCK
NEW DELHI-110 001 ….RESPONDENT

TO

THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF INDIA
AND HIS COMPANION JUSTICES OF THE
HON’BLE SUPREME COURT OF INDIA
The humble petition of PIL of the Petitioner above named
MOST RESPECTFULLY SHEWETH:
I submit the request for PIL. The immediate cause for PIL is the order by the Centre directing that all licensed weapons in the NCR should be deposited at least six months before the start of the games and apprehension that similar illegal, unconstitutional orders, notifications, directives, policies, practices maybe in force by government about acquisition, possession and carrying of legal firearms that directly and/or indirectly infringe upon the Right to Private Defense as allowed by sections 96 to 106 Indian Penal Code, leading to violation of Right to Life under Article 21 of the Constitution of India and Right to Freedom to Move freely and Travel under Article 19 of the Constitution of India.
REFERENCE:
a) http://in.news.yahoo.com/48/20100102/81 ... on-of.html
b) http://in.news.yahoo.com/32/20091218/10 ... ed-ar.html
c) http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Articl ... rd=&mode=1
d) http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 525951.cms
e) http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8412

f) http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Mumb ... 060885.cms
g) http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/12/ ... un_co.html
h) http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/a ... 24230.html

By asking all the licensed firearm holders to submit their firearms even when there are no valid cases related to the misuse of firearms by them and similar orders, notifications, directives, policies, practices followed by government which create hardships for acquisition, possession, carrying of legal firearms I feel the following are being violated by government:

(1) The very purpose of acquiring and keeping legal firearms for self protection is getting defeated. There are already provisions under current law to prevent misuse of firearms. For example, under law ( as per CrPC) where there is a known conflict between two or more parties, the Investigating Officer/ the Station House Officer, if he so suspects that the parties may misuse the firearms held by them for violence, he can order all involved parties to deposit their arms. There are more than enough provisions under the IPC, CrPC as well the Arms Act itself that are more than sufficient to prevent and/ or penalise the misuse of arms, what is needed is better enforcement by police. Also in case of any wrong doing or misuse of the licensed arms and ammunition, the licensing authority is authorised take action at any point of time. Therefore such orders, notifications, directives, policies, practices are superfluous and specious.

(2) By asking all those who have no valid case against them for misuse of legal firearms for self defense to be deposited, the rights to private defense as allowed by Section 96 to Section 106 of the Indian Penal Code are getting infringed. And this very act of government by rendering the citizens weak and incapable of effectively defending themselves, is a violation of right to life as guaranteed by our Constitution's article 21.

(3) By this order, the government by asking to deposit all legally held firearms, is rendering the law abiding citizens weak and incapable of defending themselves against random violent crime by all manner of criminals, who by the very nature of their business keep themselves always fully armed with all sorts of illegal weapons. Government is indirectly saying that the citizens do not have the inalienable right to protect their life and property. Hence the violation of Article 21 of the Constitution of India by the above order is clearly established. Government is also violating the Right to Freedom of Movement and Travel as per Article 19 of the Constitution of India by making the citizens not to move or travel, at times and places where they think fit only to travel in armed condition to keep themselves protected in case need to enforce their right to private defense arises. Hence violation of of Right to Freedom to Move freely and Travel as per Article 19 of the Constitution of India is also established.

(4) Government is making an assumption that all legal firearm owners are prone to misuse their weapons, which is an affront to the law abiding citizens keeping legal firearms as per the law and for the law. The contention of the government that those firearms may be misused by citizens is also a blur upon them. There have been documented incidents in which some individuals in the police have misused their firearms and acted against the law and only those individuals have been dealt/are being dealt accordingly by the law. Has the government expressed doubts about integrity of all the policemen and also given similar blanket orders to disarm all the policemen to prevent further misuse of firearms? Just like the police, citizens are also keeping legal firearms for enforcement of the law i.e. when faced with conditions as mentioned in sections 96 to 106 of Indian Penal Code, the citizen immediately takes help of his/her rights to defense as allowed by these sections and enforces the law with the use of his/her firearm, then why tarnish and insult the integrity of all the citizens who have taken the legal route to keep firearms? Or the government contends that police and rest of all the citizens are answerable to different set of policies and laws for the same offense?

(5) By this order and similar such orders, notifications, directives, policies, practices
government is making an assumption that all manner of criminals conducting violent crime are fully and only dependent on legally held firearms, hence if legal firearm holders are divested of the possession of firearms, the problem of crime will be automatically controlled. Whereas the data and facts are just exactly the opposite. To illustrate I will take the latest data available at the website of National Crime Records Bureau (http://ncrb.nic.in/cii2007/cii-2007/Chapters.htm) and take statistics for murder from Chapter 3 Page 8 Table 3 G since it is one of the most violent form of crime. 85.53% of all murders committed were using means and weapons other than firearms (blunt & sharp edged weapons etc.). 12.68% of murders were committed using unlicensed firearms. 1.79% of murders were committed using a licensed firearm. The government by this order is trying to create a wrong impression and false sense of security by only keeping the law abiding disarmed. The legal firearms have been issued as per the law, for enforcement of the law, hence by divesting the legal possession of firearms from their owners, the government is endangering the lives of not only the owners in particular but also the people near them. The criminals do not commit crime by deciding if they have legal or illegal weapons in their hands, instead they are attracted to opportunity, by keeping only the law abiding citizens disarmed the government is giving a clear message along with the dates to criminals, that opportunity exists, that all the law abiding will be rendered defenseless by divesting their arms, turned into “soft targets” and they will be able to carry on their business with confidence, without any fear of any credible resistance from their victims to enforce their rights of private defense.

(6) The government is equating all legal firearm owners with criminals, which is an affront to the law abiding firearm license holders. Such orders, notifications, directives, policies, practices create an impression in the society that all legal firearm holders are not law abiding and respectable citizens who are with the law, to enforce the law but belong to category of people with criminal antecedents and propensities.

(7) The government by this order and similar orders, policies and practices is going against the very principles and objectives of Arms Act, on basis of which firearm licenses have been legally issued/ are supposed to be issued. The stated objectives of the Arms Act, which amongst others states as two of it's primary objectives to be “(b)(ii) that weapons for self-defense are available for all citizens under license unless their antecedents or propensities do not entitle them for the privilege; and (iii) that firearms required for training purposes and ordinary civilian use are made more easily available on permits.” By asking to deposit all the legal firearms, the government is clearly making firearms “unavailable” for the purpose of which they have been legally acquired . As per trends in crimes from 1953 to 2007 published by the National Crime Records Bureau, during this period we witnessed a 229.7% increase in murders, a 733.8% increase in rapes, a 423.9% increase in kidnapping & abduction, a 191.9% increase in riots and a 230.5% increase in other cognizable crimes. The need for an average citizen to take measures to protect himself /herself and near and dear ones is now more than ever.

(8) This order and similar orders, policies and practices are against the spirit and objectives of various rulings of Hon'ble Courts for Right of Private Defense. By taking away the legal means for self defense, how does the government expect the citizens to defend themselves from criminals armed with all manner of illegal weapons? Moreover also ordering deposit of legal arms during elections has been already declared unlawful by Hon'ble Courts.

(9) There are legal precedents wherein the Hon'able Courts have held that the right of citizens to acquire, posses and carry arms to better defend themselves is equated with Article 21 of the Indian Constitution. Example: Judgment of Mr. Justice M.Katju in CMWP No.4723 of 1993 (reported in AIR 1993 ALLAHABAD 291) wherein right to carry non-prohibited firearms is treated to be embedded in right to life, hence a Fundamental Right under article 21 of the Constitution of India; it is further ruled that Licence for non-prohibited arms is to be ordinarily allowed except in case of heinous offence. It is a fact that for any reason whatsoever, the crime rate is raising day by day. The Government is not in a position to provide security to each and every person individually at all times and places. Right to possess arms is statutory right but right to life and liberty is fundamental right guaranteed by Article 21 of the Constitution of India. Corollary to it, it is citizen's right to possess firearms for their personal safety to save their family and near and dear ones from violent law breakers. It is often said that ordinarily in a civilized society, only civilized persons require arms license for their safety and security and not the criminals. Citizens right to protect their life and personal liberty is meaningless if they are denied the tools with which to protect themselves. The right to life and liberty is not just about a vegetative existence of life at the complete mercy of whatever protection provided by state machinery only, but includes the right to stay well armed and trained to protect ones life and those of near and dear ones.

Keeping in view above points and related facts, following two fundamental questions of law arise:

(і) Under what "justifications" can government infringe upon by various means the Rights of Private Defense of all citizens, as allowed by Section 96 to Section 106 of the Indian Penal Code, leading to infringement of the Right to Life and Liberty under Article 21 of the Constitution of India and Right to Freedom to move freely and travel under Article 19 of the Constitution of India.

(іі) Under what "justification" can government disarm/keep disarmed by various means and infringe upon the rights mentioned above in question (і) of only and all those citizens who have informed the government that they posses/want to posses firearms by following the due process of law and keep firearms for use, just like police to enforce the law? Is this order and similar such orders, notifications, directives, policies, practices are also going to/have completely disarmed all the criminals holding unknown number and type of illegal weapons and make them fully incapable of committing crime and unable to pose any dangers for which need for self protection may arise? Or by creating hardships and difficulties by various means for licensed arms holders or those seeking legal arms, is the government trying to discourage its citizens from keeping arms lawfully and want them to look for some other ways and means to keep arms for self defense?

PRAYERS:
The petitioner therefore prays that this Hon’ble Court may be please issue appropriate directions to the respondent to:

a) Give orders/directions to the government not to issue illegal, unconstitutional orders, notifications, directives, policies about acquisition, possession and carrying of legal firearms that directly and/or indirectly infringe upon the Right to Private Defense as allowed by sections 96 to 106 IPC, Right to Life under Article 21 of the Constitution of India and Right to Freedom to move freely and travel under Article 19 of the Constitution of India. Legally armed citizens are an asset for the nation, not a threat for the nation. Even the parliamentary committee set up to review the proposed Arms Bill which eventually became the Arms Act of 1959 had also envisaged a situation wherein the State could use legally armed civilians for defense of the country. Instead of above which lead to violation of the rights of citizens, whenever government has any reasons to apprehend an increase in violent crime and feels the state machinery is not sufficient to deal with such situation, it can invoke the provisions similar to that of Punjab Village and Small Towns Patrol Act of 1918 and also involve the citizens armed with legal firearms to participate in community policing.

b) Give orders/directions to the government to immediately withdraw if any illegal, unconstitutional orders, notifications , directives, policies, practices if are already in force by the government about acquisition, possession and carrying of legal firearms that directly and/or indirectly infringe upon the Right to Private Defense as allowed by sections 96 to 106 IPC, Right to Life under Article 21 of Constitution of India and Right to Freedom to move freely and travel under Article 19 of Constitution of India. Instead of above which lead to violation of the rights of citizens, whenever government finds any license holder violating the law by use of the weapon, the weapon be confiscated immediately and matter be bought to notice of Hon'ble Courts.

c) Give orders/directions to the government to instruct licensing authorities to avoid resorting to arbitrary practices and procedures based on their personal biases and prejudices like illegal denial, denial by the process of attrition by delay, unreasonable delay and all kinds of other hardships which result in infringement upon the Right to Private Defense as allowed by sections 96 to 106 IPC, Right to Life under Article 21 of Constitution of India and Right to Freedom to move freely and travel under Article 19 of Constitution of India. Instead of above which lead to violation of the rights of citizens, if the authorities find any evidence that applicant is applying with purpose or intention of violating any law with the weapon, should immediately file a case and bring it to the notice of the Hon'ble Courts.

d) Give orders/directions to the government to make the process of licensing for acquisition, possession and carrying of arms be made free from getting influenced and driven by personal biases and prejudices of authorities, instead be made clear, objective and time bound, so that the Right to Private Defense as allowed by sections 96 to 106 IPC, Right to Life under Article 21 of Constitution of India and Right to Freedom to move freely and travel under Article 19 of Constitution of India do not get infringed.

e) For such other orders and directions as this Hon’ble court may deem fit and necessary.
AND FOR THIS ACT OF KINDNESS THE PETITIONER AS IN DUTY BOUND SHALL EVER PRAY.
FILED BY THE PETITIONER

FILED ON:

ENCLOSED:
a) Eight PDF files as attachments as copy of each of the web pages referred by hyperlinks under “REFERENCE:” on pages 1 & 2 of the total 7 pages of this document.

b) Two PDF files as attachment as copy of violent crime data as downloaded from website of National Crime Records Bureau.

c) One PDF file as attachment as copy of Draft Arms & Ammunition Policy of MHA and one PDF file as attachment as copy of Draft Objections to Draft Arms & Ammunition Policy of MHA.
Last edited by goodboy_mentor on Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:47 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by Anand » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:28 pm

"The right to life and liberty is not just about a vegetative existence of life at the complete mercy of the protection provided by state machinery only, but includes the right to stay well armed and trained to protect ones life and those of near and dear ones." :agree:

I pray that you win this litigation! :D
regards,
Anand

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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by hamiclar01 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:24 pm

That is splendid indeed. Thanks for the time you spent on this!

We wish you Godspeed and best of luck for the venture. Let us know if you need any help.
"Stan, don't you know the first law of physics? Anything that's fun costs at least eight dollars."

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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by homi » Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:18 pm

Hi,
Somehow, stumbled on to the forum, seemed interesting. Personally i dont know why but the forum and the group as a whole reminded me of the KKK. :twisted: But keeping my opinion for the subject matter of the forum aside, here is what i think of the issue of approaching the courts against the order of the central government.

On the face of it it seems to me that you have a good case to approach the courts and If you are actually serious about this ... here is some free legal advice :wink: ...

1) I am not sure a PIL would be the best option.
I think a better course of action would be to get the petition filed by someone who is actully effected by the law, say an X who lives in Gurgoan and who got a notice saying that he was required submit the gun to the government.

2) Go to the High Court, and not the Supreme Court.
The issue that you raise does not seem to me one of those for which you could or should approach the supreme court directly. the right course of action in my opinion would be to approach the high court and pursue the matter there.

3) Most Importantly, get your facts rights
The information that you have at present about the issue to me seems inadequate to approach the courts. Merely some newspaper articles would not be enough. my suggestions would be to file some right to information applications with the government asking them for more information. like the details of the circulars and the directions etc.

Best
-Homi

:deadhorse: (just felt like insering this somewhere in the post)

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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by nagarifle » Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:41 pm

nice one go for it :agree:
Nagarifle

if you say it can not be done, then you are right, for you, it can not be done.

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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by winnie_the_pooh » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:12 pm

homi wrote:but the forum and the group as a whole reminded me of the KKK. :twisted:
Care to explain the above? While you do, we will go and get our hoods and burning torches ready.

BTW welcome to IFG.

If you stick around,maybe you would learn more about IFG and what it stands for.Getting guns does not mean that you want to attack some one.They are meant to defend in case of an attack.A HUGE difference.

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Re: Gurgaon police orders submission of licenced arms by March

Post by goodboy_mentor » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:25 pm

Hi Homi,
Welcome to IFG and thank you for your comments and advice but I would like to say, we at IFG are by no means like KKK. We do not believe in anything unlawful, nor do we support it. I do not think fighting for your inalienable God given Rights for self defense by legal and democratic means is incorrect, Arms Act or no Arms Act all manner of criminals arm themselves with all kinds of illegal weapons. Criminals are attracted to opportunity, it is hardly any consolation to the defenseless victim of heinous crime whether he/she is assaulted by a legal or illegal weapon. Why should law abiding citizens who want to keep themselves armed be treated like criminals. Why should law abiding citizens keep themselves unarmed and be at mercy of whatever protection is provided by the State? There was even a debate in Constituent assembly to make RKBA a fundamental Right.
Ref: http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?t=1625
Shri H. V. Kamath: Before I come to the amendment itself may I say a word as to an important omission which has been made before article 13? I find from the Report of the Fundamental Rights Sub-Committee over which the Honourable Sardar Patel presided, the rights from 13 upto 18 have been titled or designated as the Rights of Freedom.This sub-title `Rights of Freedom' has been omitted from the draft as presented to the Assembly now. In this report which I am reading--Report of the Committee--First Series from December 1946 to July 1947--the sub-title is `Rights of Freedom' just before we come to article 13.

Then, Sir, I come to the amendment itself. It is

common knowledge to all of us who have lived and worked in India during the last thirty years or more that this has been a universal demand emanating from all sections of the population, firstly as a protest against the degrading and humiliating Arms Act passed by the British Government in the last century, and secondly, Sir, as a guarantee of the right of self-defence. This demand has been embodied in various Congress Resolutions during the last two decades. The most important Resolution and most historic, the most momentous was the Resolution on Fundamental Rights passed at Karachi.I read, Sir, from that Resolution the relevant extracts:

"This Congress is of opinion that to enable the masses to appreciate what Swaraj as conceived by the Congress will mean to them, it is desirable to state the position of the Congress in a manner easily understood by them. In order to end the exploitation of the masses, political freedom must include real economic freedom of the starving millions. The Congress, therefore, declares that any constitution.

Mark these words--any constitution.

* * * which may be agreed to on its behalf, should provide or enable the Swaraj Government to provide for the following......"

and various fundamental rights are enumerated, among them being this one--

"Every citizen has the right to keep and bear arms in accordance with Regulations and reservations made in that behalf."

I find, Sir, from this list of Fundamental Rights, adopted at the Karachi session of the Congress, almost all of them have been incorporated in this Draft Constitution, except this one, and this is a very serious omission.

I might also make an observation about this amendment,that I am in a very good company, because amendment No. 443which is similar to my amendment has been tabled by the General Secretaries of the Congress--Shri Shankar Rao Deoand Acharya Jugal Kishore.

Mr. Vice-President: Do you suggest that it is the workof the Congress only? I thought it is the co-operative work of all the parties.

Shri H. V. Kamath: But, Sir, all will agree that the dominant party in this House is the Congress Party, and if this party is not going to stand by its past professions, if it is going to prove false to its past, and not implement its resolution of the past, what has that party come to? If the fundamental idea of this resolution passed at Karachi is to be given the go-by, I ask this House, shall we not fall in the estimation of the people of the country? Sir, this demand has not been a mere demand. I very well remember that in Nagpur in 1923 or 1924 there was a Satyagraha movement against the Arms Act and this Satyagraha movement attracted Satyagrahis from all over-India. That went on for six months, and the Congress put its seal of approval on this Satyagraha movement against the Arms Act. Today we may say that conditions have changed and we do not want this sort of thing to be incorporated in our fundamental rights. But,Sir, I will come to that argument a little later.

I can appreciate the force of the argument that this absolute right should not be conceded today. Perhaps there is a lurking fear in the minds of those in power that theright may be abused. For that reason I have given this proviso in conformity with and in line with the other provisos which have been embodied in this article. I am personally not very much in favour of these elaborate provisos. Here again, I would like to draw the attention of the Honourable Dr. Ambedkar to pages 21 and 29 of thisReport of the Committees' First Series. On page 21, we have the Report of the Fundamental Rights Sub-Committee presided over by the Honourable sardar Patel, and later on the same report was discussed in the Assembly and modifications were made in that, and the elaborate provisos which appeared in the original report of the Fundamental Rights Committee do not find a place in the resolution on the report which was adopted by the Constituent Assembly. This perhaps needs an explanation from Dr. Ambedkar.

Reverting to the subject matter of the amendment. I have already said that I do not want to make this

right absolute. That is why I have tabled this proviso, imposing restrictions in the interests of public order, peace and tranquillity. It may be said that saboteurs and other elements are abroad in the country and these may abuse this privilege and take advantage of this privilege conferred upon the ordinary citizen. But may I tell the House that saboteurs and other evil elements, villains and criminals have managed and will always manage to get arms, Arms Act or no Arms Act; and it is the law-abiding citizen who has always suffered in the bargain, and it is he who has to be protected against these elements. The history of the last twelve months has proved this to us most unmistakably, that those who suffer in these criminal riots and disturbances are not the violent elements or the saboteurs, but the law-abiding citizens, and these have to be protected.

Again, the argument may be put forward that we should incorporate only such rights about which there is fear that they might be denied to the citizen. But if we examine this argument a little closely, and also this article, in the light of this argument, we will find that rights like free movement throughout India; freedom to reside and settle in any part of India, and such other rights about which there is no doubt or fear that they will be denied, have been incorporated in this article. But this one right, to keep and bear arms has not found a place in this article. If this very diluted proposal of mine, if even this very abridged freedom to bear arms is not acceptable to the House, I am afraid it will create a most unfortunate impression on our countrymen that the Government does not trust the people,that the Government has no faith in the people, that the Government is afraid of the people. It is all right. Sir,for Ministers of Government to say, "We are here to protect you". But, with security guards outside their bungalows, it is very well for them to put forward this plea. But the ordinary citizen has no armed guard about him, no guards standing outside his house. If the Government wishes to convey the impression to the people that the Government has no faith in them, that it is afraid of them, if that is the attitude of the Government, then it is welcome to say so. It will prove to the people that you are not a popular government, that you are a government which has no faith in the people. If you are a popular government, this is the least that you can do today to put an end to this ignominy of the past one hundred years.

It may be argued also that the Congress and Mahatma Gandhi and our leaders have taught us to defend ourselves by Ahimsa, and not by Himsa, by non-violence and not by violence. But, Sir, may I, in all humility remind the House that Mahatma Gandhi used to say, "Resist, defend, non-violently, if possible, but violently, if necessary. What Ihate is cowardice." And this doctrine, Sir, has been propagated recently by the Honourable Sardar Patel himself who has been going about the country asking the people never to run away, never to be cowards, but to resist violently if necessary, not to run away from the assassin, from the hooligan, from the criminal. Defend yourself by all means and at all costs. I find my honourable Friend Mr. ShankarRao Deo laughing in his seat. He is welcome to smile or laugh but I may tell him that he laughs best who laughs last. He has tabled an amendment here. I do not know whether he is serious about it. In the end I will only say that if we of the Congress party who are in a majority desire to prove true to our past, if we have the desire in us to implement all the resolutions that we have adopted in the past, if we do not want to live with the lie in our soul, I appeal to the House to accept this amendment and put an end to one of the most disgraceful phases of our ignominious past of over a hundred years.
The Aims and Objectives of Arms Act 1959 Ref: http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2779
" (b)(ii) that weapons of self-defence are available for all citizens under license unless their antecedents or propensities do not entitle them for the privilige;and

(iii)that firearms required for training purposes and ordinary civilians are made more easily available on permits;...."
Right to carry non-prohibited firearms is treated to be embedded in right to life, hence a Fundamental Right under article 21 of the Constitution of India. Ref: http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... e]judgment of Mr. Justice M.Katju in CMWP No.4723 of 1993 (reported in AIR 1993 ALLAHABAD 291) wherein right to carry non-prohibited firearms is treated to be embedded in right to life, hence a Fundamental Right under article 21 of the Constitution of India; it is further ruled that Licence for non-prohibited arms is to be ordinarily allowed except in case of heinous offence.[/quote]
Please also read http://www.mha.nic.in/pdfs/DAAM-PolicyI ... 211209.pdf the page 8 of 14, MHA wanted special provision to grant of licenses to police personal. It means either fellow police officers are not able to verify the antecedents/propensities of fellow police officers or the Licensing Authorities are not able to understand how to implement Arms Act and related myriad of rules and notifications. If the entire system is "free and fair" the police officers should not have any problem to get arms license by the normal and due course for the grant of Arms License. Or does it mean that the Arms Act 1959 and/or related rules and notifications are suffering from the "vice of over delegation" and the executive is not able to implement it to the extent that even the police officers are having difficulty obtaining Arms Licenses?
Last edited by goodboy_mentor on Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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