Walther P22

[VJ]

Guys per Mehul's response (in New member introduction) here is some info on the Walther P22. Well actually it is my wife's gun she was looking for something to go shooting, so we bought the P22. At that time this one seemed to suit us best since it was not as big as the buck marks or the regular target pistols. It is pretty light (fiber body like most current pistols out there) and does not recoil as much. If we use the regular Remington ammo from Wallmart ($8 per 550 box) it fires just fine, may be have a misfire every 75 rounds or so but then that could be due to the cheapo ammo. When used with the Subsonic ammo from remington it fires as smooth as can be no misfires at all. We probably have taken more than 3000 rounds through it with regular cleaning after every visit to the range. But it is a pain to take apart and assemble. It takes forever to get it together and am cursing myself for a good 5 minutes to put the slide together. It shoots well ours tended to shoot a little to the right and low and have since ajusted a little, but then could be that we were just getting used to it. One can probably buy the sights and laser sights as well for this gun, hve not done so muselh. My original choice was the Walther TPH 22 but they stopped making them and Inerarms who used to make them dont anymore and you can ocassionaly find a used for around $500. Maybe in a few months she is thinking of getting the S&W 22 Revolver, though I doubt it wll shoot as well as a Pistol.
In essence its a Reliable gun, not awefully expensive and a decent shot.

[Sakobav]

Mehul

I would also consider SIG Mosquito other than Buckmark and Rugers.

[mehulkamdar]

VJ,

Thanks for the report. Just a question - have you tried shooting any hollowpoints through your P 22? I am curious to know if it feeds them.

Also, a personal word of caution on the TPHs - I have a very poor opinion of the Walther PP, PPK and TPH guns and have owned and shot several though the ones I shot were all centrefires and not 22s. They all have a strong tendency to jam. You're better off with a reliable gun like the P 22 if it feeds and shoots as well as you tell us it does. AT the wrong time, the TPH, especially if you use it as a carry gun on CCW or something like that, could get you killed.

Navdeep,

I know Amit tried the Buckmark and didn't like it one bit. The SIG Mosquito must be a nice gun - it is a SIG after all. I haven;t seen or shot one and shall ask Amit to try one out at one of the many rent and shoot ranges near his home. BTW, he, too, wants a home defence gun for his wife, hence a 22 so that she could shoot it well. Illinois, of course, does not allow concealed carry, so there is no question of looking at portability in Amit's case.

Cheers!

[Sakobav]

Mehul

P22 is used by some police agencies as a training pistol. A cheaper option compared to 9 mm pistols for new recruits. It was mentioned to me by a store owner in CT and I think I read it somewhere.

Sig Mosquito is also built for similar purpose http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCat ... oductid=75

Ruger MK II are good pistols and Buckmark has many models with some specifically made for Ladies.

All the best

[mehulkamdar]

Navdeep,

I have shot the Buckmark myself and did not find anything good or bad about it. Amit did and he did not like it. I think he shot the standard and heavy barreled 4" versions as well as the carbine version. IMO the S&W 41 is better by far than all of the other choices but then, considering it's cost, it has to be better or it would not sell at the kind of prices S&W ask for it.

In any case, I like the concept of a 22 with a large sized grip and the P 22 and Mosquito should both be fine within the price range that Amit would like to spend. In the end, what he finds most comfortable would be what he picks. The TPH and PP and PPK are crap in my experience as I have said before and of the older blowbacks I like the Ortgies best followed by the Mauser HSC.

[TC]

VJ, Hammerli Trailside is another good weapon I have heard. Its well made and accurate. You can have a look. It comes in two barrel lengths.
Another weapon which is very reliable but not as accurate is the Ruger 22/45. It even comes with a short barrel....Since the grip assembly is made of polymer this is slightly lighter than the other Rugers models even with a bull barrel.

Cheers

TC

[VJ]

Mehul: The 22 Remington Ammo from Wallmart is hollow point and still shoots well. I have hear soe people talk about the P22 being sensitive to the ammo use some prefer Remington, some Spitfire, some CCi and so forth, but have not had a poblem yet.
I know someone who has the TPH (made at Ulm not the Interarms one) and is really happy with it, could it be a model to model variation?
We were considering the Baretta Chetah22LR but the gun style did not appeal to my wife, well good thing since I got to try one at the range and it is not a smooth gun to operate much more recoil than the P22 and more jams. More expensive too.
Well the next gun after we truely exhaust this one will be a S & W 22 Revolver.

[Sakobav]

TC

Hammerli Trail Side is not being made any more, there were some complaints regarding it. One I found was being sold at premium of $200. Didnt buy it.

Ruger is a good pistol and there are lot of options in terms of accessories etc to modify it.

My issue was no one stocks .22 pistols, the rage is .40, 9 mm bigger caliber pistols. So choices are limited - take it or leave it. This issue is further complicated by a rule here that a person has 30 days to purchase a handgun.

VJ
I nearly bought a SW revolver 59x in .22 magnum with 4 inch barrel. It was above my budget and I was interested in a .22 LR.

Mehul

Amit should check out the SW revolvers they are much better home defense handguns compared to pistol, ease of use etc.

Unlike my fair city, midwest has more options in terms of new or used guns. Check out Taurus revolvers.

[mehulkamdar]

VJ,

I have shot several pre and post war PPs, PPKs and they all had a tendency to jam. I have talked to several vastly more experienced shooters including a former classmate of mine who ranks among the best competitive pistol shooters on the Glock Challenge in the world. Their experience mirrors mine. I think the mystique of the older blowback Walthers owes more to James Bond films than to any practical reasons. You made a good choice in the P 22, believe me. One that feeds hollowpoints is a very good home defence firearm if you prefer to use it in that role. Walther must have worked more than a little of their magic to get this design to feed hollowpoints well.

Navdeep,

You're absolutely right about the Trailside. I was talking to a friend yesterday and have heard that the design was discontinued because of frame failures. Apparently, a redesigned 22 lr model is due from Hammerli though the company has recently been merged into some other business, I am awaiting details from my friend.

Smith and Wesson are very nice guns, no doubt. The problem is that Amit is looking at a budget gun, which rules them out. We did check out a Model 41 which he liked a lot at the Wheaton gun show but the price was outside the range he has budgeted for. Knowing Amt, he is sure to shoot the gun for five or six range sessions a week as he believes that shooting is the best form of relaxation. That means budgeting for a lot of ammunition in his case, hence the overall care not to spend too much.

I can also understand why the bigger handguns sell much better in NYC - with your city's severe restrictions on gun ownership, most handgun owners buy their guns as defensive pistols and the 22 is a very marginal defence at best compared to a 9mm or even better a 40 or 45 cal. Naturally the bigger bores sell more...

Thanks to both you gentlemen for this nice thread.

[Sakobav]

Mehul

SW 41 is a very good if not top of the line gun in many respects. They have another model SW 22 A and its priced between 280 to 400 ish. He should check them out.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... sFirearm=Y

Beretta Neo was not recommended by Sharief.

Rgds

[Sakobav]

Mehul

Taurus tracker revolver in .22

http://www.taurususa.com/products/produ ... y=Revolver

[TC]

Thanks Navdeep for updating me on the Trailside.
I have personally used a S&W Model 41. It feels good in the hand. The one I fired came with a drift adjustable backsight. Not very accurate with a three inch barrel.

However, I dont think revolver is a good choice when it comes to home/personal defence.... the limited ammo and slow reload i.e.
Its purely my personal opinion.

Mehul, I have fired many .32 PPKs. Mostly post war Germans. Never had a jam. But had a real bad experience with the decocker/safety once in the range. The damn thing didnt move the striker away when the hammer fell. The weapon went off !!! The slide chewed off some flesh from my thumb. The barrel was looking down the range so didnt have a disaster. I guess the owner, a fellow member, didnt maintain it well.

Cheers

TC

[mehulkamdar]

Tanmay,

I'm sure The Statesman's library has Jane's Infantry Weapons. Do check out the entry on the PP/PPK in this, the most authoritative guide on small arms in the world. Janes reports on why the guns were dropped by the British police and their use and testing would be much more extensive than that of any civilian. The recent PP/PPK/TPH pistols that have been manufactured by Manurhin, I think, are vastly better than some of the older guns but they still fall short and they are an outdated design anyway.

And this is OT but my friend is coming to Chicago next week and I'll try and either call you on the phone or get him to mail you when he's here.

Cheers!

[TC]

Thanks Mehul, will check the Jane's reports. I have the one on small arms in my personal collection. Never went through the report on Walther PPK. Took it for granted I suppose. Fired a couple of Manhurin PPKs in Kolkata and also a Kirrikale (Turkey) version owned by a friend in the army. The differences were mostly cosmetic.

Will wait for your mail/call

Cheers

TC

[mehulkamdar]

Tanmay,

Manurhin's manufacturing processes are substantially more advanced than those of Walther's were before the war. Kirrikale are streets behind. I have shot Manurhin revolvers and along with Willi Korth revolvers they are the finest in the world. That, I guess, is why their prices are 200% tat of the competition. I am sure that quite a bit of their manufacturing expertise makes a difference to the PP/PPKs built by them, and they are still not good enough.

The Jane's handbook also used to have an entry on the PPK if I remember but not as detailed an entry as JIW. I think that if a person wants to save his/her life then this is definitely not a very good choice. There are vastly better choices available to shooters even in India.

Cheers!