Importing Arms & Ammo into India

[mundaire]

I own more than a couple of firearms and stand to lose a tidy sum if import of firearms is allowed and the price of firearms goes down. However I would be happy to see such a situation in which a law abiding citizen of the country can bring in firearm's and ammo freely.

penpusher my sentiments exactly! In fact my wife, for the life of her cannot understand why I am pursuing this with such passion, when I have myself never had much problem getting a license or acquiring firearms!

I usually end up using the following quote - "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." - Edward Bruke

You have very rightly pointed out that even shooters, once they attain a position which allows them to import arms & ammo themselves, thus becoming part of the "establishment" - suddenly become all for the current dispensation! This phenomenon is common enough to have a name - it's called the "hierarchy of favours", something that the few use to rule over the many... and something that adds to the inertia which makes it difficult to dislodge the status quo...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[penpusher]

MOD Annual Report 2004-2005,Page 77

"A new sporting weapon.3006" Rifle has been developed,which will be released in the market after getting clearance from Ministry of Home Affairs."

From this I understood that the rifle has already been submitted to the MHA.Maybe this has not been done so far.Or maybe the failure of the IOFB to sell it's .22 revolver has shown to them that though the Indian's have no choice in buying firearms, they will not buy something that does not function at all.So they are trying to develope a rifle that will function. All that the jokers have to do is to get the blueprint of a Mauser action and make a rifle from that.

penpusher

[TC]

penpusher I think Abhijeet has aptly quoted Burke to explain the phenomenon of the "creamy layer" in shooting sports.

Regarding bricks of .22s being sold by dealers I think you are ware that (some) members of (most) shooting clubs sell their old stock in the black merket when a fresh supply comes through NRAI.

Now there is a rule to discourage such malpractice - "return the empties".
Point is who will count millions of empties and even check the markings.

Let me make a confession - when I was young and greedy I have exchanged KF empties and cash for fresh Eley Tenex !!!

So long

TC

[eljefe]

Hey TC-You 've been there done that-;)

[Grumpy]

It`s easy to maintain the status quo by the concept of `Divide and Conquer` - once the process of privilige has been introduced the `I`m all right Jack` syndrome will take care of the most ardent dissenters.
If you want to get rid of the problem of poaching you make a poacher a gamekeeper. If you want to maintain the House of Lords you create Labour peers. If you want to control the import of firearms you allow a select few to import guns.
It`s a nasty trait of human nature that people will jealously protect their priviliges at the expense of others.

[mundaire]

Thank you TC/ Grumpy...

While human nature isn't likely to change... what can and must be changed is the incentive to encourage more and more people from the vast majority to speak up... these are the people who are actually being denied their rights! And unless they begin to speak up... it'll forever remain a drawing room discussion!

What's intriguing (and sad) is, most will willingly shell out several thousand to bribe their way towards getting an arms license, but convincing them to support RKBA - even in principle (forget about money) is a real battle...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[TC]

Hey TC-You 've been there done that-;)

Been here, done all of that....

[Grumpy]

It seems to me that there`s much about the Indian character that is very like the English - reserve and a general distaste for making a fuss being amongst those traits. Unfortunately not much is achieved without being passionately vocifierous.
It`s too easy to stand back and just make polite requests for change which achieve nothing and you can guarantee that if one is prepared to be crapped on from a great height by Governments and institutions there are only too many who are happy to impersonate a Pigeon !

[TC]

Grumpy, I heartily appreciate what you say.
But against the backdrop of our social coflicts on issues like these and the moral policing that goes with it, I dont think individuals can achieve much no matter how deep the conviction goes....
At the end of the day, his efforts will go down in the records as declaration of war against the institution...or simply put, madness.

A group of individuals, with a common goal, may actually get through the straight jacket..

So long

TC

[penpusher]

Guess what.While the Indian govt. want's us to use IOFB products of 'world class quality' it has no issues with importing guns when it comes to it's own use.

Name of the
Organization : State Trading Corporation of India
Type of Organization : Public Sector Undertakings Ministry : Ministry of Commerce and Industry
Tender Ref. No : STC/GID/SS-08/2006-07

Tender Title : Tender for Import of 12 Bore SBBL Guns
Product Category : Security System
Sub Category : 12 Bore Single Barrel Breech Loading Guns
Tender Value (INR if not mentioned): NIL EMD : 2 PERCENT Document Cost : NIL

Tender Type : Buy
Location : STC, Jawahar Vyapar Bhawan, Newn Delhi
First
Announcement Date : 7-December-2006 At : 10:00 AM
Publication Date on Portal: 7-December-2006
Last Date of Document Collection :
22-December-2006 Up To : 1:00 PM
Last date for
Submission : 22-December-2006 Up To : 3:00 PM
Opening Date : 22-December-2006 At : 3:30 PM
Work Description : Import/Supply of 12 Bore SBBL Guns for Forest
Pre-Qualification : Submission of EMD Equal to 2% of Quoted CIF Value Alongwith Quatation/Offer
Tender Document : View Document *
Bid Document : Document Not available
Tech. Document : Document Not available
Sector : Commerce
State : Delhi

For further Information Contact:
Name : Sh. Samir Kaul
E-Mail : [email protected]
Phone Office : 91-11-23701237
Fax : 91-11-23710298
Address : General Manager,
State Trading Corporation of India Ltd.
Jawahar Vyapar Bhawan,
Tolstoy Marg, New Delhi - 110001

City : New Delhi

Does this not indicate a lack of faith in the firearms manufactured in India.


penpusher

[dev]

Okay I apologise for not doing it before. I hate not being able to import rifles and pistols and cartridges. Even I have seen lots of imported .22 cartridges on dealers shelves and have been quoted the price of four KF for each firang round.

Dev.

TC

I wish more forum members had shared their thoughts on this subject

Even I am surprised by the lack of response on this.Besides the Arms dealers, there is another group that does not seemt to be very enthusiastic about the removal of restriction on the import of firearms and ammo.

Though I am very sure the one's I have met do not represent the views of all,but all of the one's I have interacted with,without exception are vehement in denying that the import restriction has hindered the shooting sport in the country.I am talking about the priviliged few who have reached a position in the shooting sport that entitles them to import arms and ammo.I am aware of one of them who had to really sruggle to get a shotgun and now when he has been able to import one along with ammo. declares that nothing needs to be changed.

Maybe they are afraid of things changing and more competition coming up in a sport that is expensive to pursue.Or maybe they do not want to lose the tidy profit that they make by selling ammo in the open market. Has anybody really tried to figure out how imported 12ga and .22 ammo makes it's way into the shops of Arms Dealers.I have seen bricks of 500rds of .22 ammo with dealers.This when no one can bring in more than 50 cartridges on his license.Only shooters and the NRAI can bring in ammo in bulk.

I own more than a couple of firearms and stand to lose a tidy sum if import of firearms is allowed and the price of firearms goes down. However I would be happy to see such a situation in which a law abiding citizen of the country can bring in firearm's and ammo freely.

penpusher

[TC]

Sorry, It was not my intention to hurt anyones feelings with that statement. My apologies.

Cheers

TC

[dev]

Don't have to apologise I was just being silly.

Dev

Sorry, It was not my intention to hurt anyones feelings with that statement. My apologies.

Cheers

TC

[TC]

Dev, I knew it. I was trying to play silly as well

Cheers to that....

TC

[ashokpkl]

But, some has to go to New Delhi & start lobbying according to roadmap prepared by IFG. We can start small. An option would be to nurture industry in India to produce quality DBBL Shotguns, 30-06 Rifle & .22 Rimfire Rifles in India with quality ammunition. Later lobbying for allowing imorts could start.