Side arm of Indian Armed forces

[kanwar76]

Hey Madhy,

Are you sure the names

1. Lt Veer singh chauhan
2. Lt Abhimanyu ranawat
3. Sub Lt Jasmeet Singh Sohal
4. NK Gajendra Singh
5. GDR Gurmeet Singh
6. NK Rajendra Singh

you posted are from 16 GRENADIERS Out of these 6 who got shaeed?

Just asking

-Inder

[17H]

Hi Sorry to be rude to interupt a nice discussion but I would like to ask Mr Madhy here a few questions/ objections as I feel that he is not a genuine person and all that he has written is fiction.

I would be only too happy to eat my words and apologise to Mr Madhy in case he proves me wrong.

1. You started the discussion by professing that you cannot divuge secret information then you have gone on to divulge everything.

2. What kind of promotion you are refferring to when you were made a captain? As i know that all officers are commissioned in the Rank of Captain these days and not promoted after any kind of advance training course.

3. The Only advance course an officer does immediately on joining is a 3 month Young Officer's (YO) Course at Infantry School, Mhow, which is primarily a Platoon Commanders course, and involves weapons and tactics at a platoon level. It does not deal with any advance Infantry weapons, which is covered seperately in a 'Weapons' course at the same institution.

4. CI ops troops in Kashmir are always alert and travel with full load of ammunition, whether in Civilian area or not. (Courtesy my class mate who is a major in 24 RR)

5. You mean to say that you battled the militants in the heart of Srinagar town, for full 8 hours without any support in the backyard of the mighty 15th Corps of the Indian Army.

6. RPG is not a gun, its a grenade launcher, whose full form is Rocket Propelled Grenade 7 (RPG7).

7. Every unit has an armourer who has been trained at the EME centre, Secunderabad, who handles any specailised problems in the weapons. The weapons meanwhile function beautifully with only carefull cleaning. Any infantry soldier is not worth his boots if he does not maintain his weapons cleanly.

8. All weapons are inspected periodically by the team from EME, who can make matters very difficult for a unit commander whose weapons are not maintained properly.

9. What Kind of Rank is Sub Lt, in your list of the injured persons?

10. How come you are 24 years old, have served in the Army and are now out? Even you were a SSC you would have served 5 years at least. You would have joined at least when you were 20 years if not more, with a 9 month training at OTA Madras, 5 years service..... It does not add up.

Please do clarify as I am very curious.

Regards & No Offence to those who were injured and made the ultimate sacrifice.

[madhy]

Hey Madhy,

Are you sure the names

1. Lt Veer singh chauhan
2. Lt Abhimanyu ranawat
3. Sub Lt Jasmeet Singh Sohal
4. NK Gajendra Singh
5. GDR Gurmeet Singh
6. NK Rajendra Singh

you posted are from 16 GRENADIERS Out of these 6 who got shaeed?

Just asking

-Inder

Hi,

3 people who were shaheeds in the operation from my team are

4. NK Gajendra Singh
5. GDR Gurmeet Singh
6. NK Rajendra Singh

Gajendra & Gurmeet were with me & Rajendra ji were shaheed in another hot spot

the entire event I stated was only a part of the operation & not a complete operation.....

As far as their unit is concerned we are not classified as 1,2 or 6 or 19 or 15 or 16

we all are GRENADIERS & when its action time its all about GRENADIERS & in GRENADIERS we have internal units like 1,2,or 16 depending on lot of parameters so when a team is formed its according to situation not according to which unit u belong to they were from 2 GRENADIERS. But I wrote 16 as I like their punch line...

-- Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:00 am --

Hi Sorry to be rude to interupt a nice discussion but I would like to ask Mr Madhy here a few questions/ objections as I feel that he is not a genuine person and all that he has written is fiction.

I would be only too happy to eat my words and apologise to Mr Madhy in case he proves me wrong.

1. You started the discussion by professing that you cannot divuge secret information then you have gone on to divulge everything.

2. What kind of promotion you are refferring to when you were made a captain? As i know that all officers are commissioned in the Rank of Captain these days and not promoted after any kind of advance training course.

3. The Only advance course an officer does immediately on joining is a 3 month Young Officer's (YO) Course at Infantry School, Mhow, which is primarily a Platoon Commanders course, and involves weapons and tactics at a platoon level. It does not deal with any advance Infantry weapons, which is covered seperately in a 'Weapons' course at the same institution.

4. CI ops troops in Kashmir are always alert and travel with full load of ammunition, whether in Civilian area or not. (Courtesy my class mate who is a major in 24 RR)

5. You mean to say that you battled the militants in the heart of Srinagar town, for full 8 hours without any support in the backyard of the mighty 15th Corps of the Indian Army.

6. RPG is not a gun, its a grenade launcher, whose full form is Rocket Propelled Grenade 7 (RPG7).

7. Every unit has an armourer who has been trained at the EME centre, Secunderabad, who handles any specailised problems in the weapons. The weapons meanwhile function beautifully with only carefull cleaning. Any infantry soldier is not worth his boots if he does not maintain his weapons cleanly.

8. All weapons are inspected periodically by the team from EME, who can make matters very difficult for a unit commander whose weapons are not maintained properly.

9. What Kind of Rank is Sub Lt, in your list of the injured persons?

10. How come you are 24 years old, have served in the Army and are now out? Even you were a SSC you would have served 5 years at least. You would have joined at least when you were 20 years if not more, with a 9 month training at OTA Madras, 5 years service..... It does not add up.

Please do clarify as I am very curious.

Regards & No Offence to those who were injured and made the ultimate sacrifice.

Hi,

I will straight away answer your points here

1. I didnt told you how we operated what wsa my motto out of that. Whats the outcome of that what were my orders & what I did in detail to achive that so my orders are still confidential.....pint null & void.....

2 & 3. I did this advanced combat course and the weapons course as soon as I cleared by basic training so was not posted somewhere before the courses due to my achivements in initial training. Normally people complete their base training & are posted as Lt. & not captain & then they go for course & return as capt.

4. I am aware of the patrol party but we were stationed in a small chowki & that too on a relatively less sensitive area. We keep ammo at other location in heavy quantity rather than small chowki.My Unit's do carry ammo but on a small post you dont keep too much ammo cz in case of attack where you have to pull back from tht place to any other camp/chowki/station you should not leave behind any ammo for enemy & same is the case with ration. this is the only reason we dont keep too much ammo & dont think we didnt had any.... I carried least on that day cz I was the one who was to lead the operation not with gun but with strategy...

5. We given order in such a way that there was no requirement of support but it was my mistake who made it such a big deal or if its ur mistake then u bear it. If I would have requested backup then i would have been questioned as to why i didnt followed the instructions given to me.... you may feel these answers incomplete but trust me once you are in its all u man..

6. I belive i know that!!!! but just to ease down the readers i used guns.....if you people want then I wud use the terms as they are ....no issues with me...

7. I know that every unit has that but they help only when either you take your guns to them or else its a routine checkup or else when there is some call otherwise they are stationed at base camp & dont go all the time with patrol party or is not stationed at every chowki where you have to spend atleast months before you either move to another or if lucky then base camp...so when you are on field you are theonly engineer & no one else...... we use weapons ruggedly cz we dont lock them up like you people in lockers or cupboards or dont keep them covered...so chances of faults are much more.... so alli requested was a timely checkup.....hope not too much...

8. Again checkup happens on base camps or stations not in field when you are pulling the trigger no one asks ........hey i need your gun for sometimei need to check if its clean............ when we go back to base its our duty to clean & return othrewise they are not accepted in the arms room ........if u r not awre of that .....what iam talking about is the situation when we are on field for too long...either we should have a replacement which is not by default but you have to ask for it or else it should have maintainence on field where we have our advanced camp.

9.Differnet people use differnt mthods to enter army which are NDA, OTA & CDS & officers from OTA starts with Sub Lt moves to Lt. & so on...

10. I hope its not necessary that you put your exact year of birth till the time you are a adult....right??? lot of us do ghapla baazi in that so if i did that & not told u that im 38 so whts bad in that.... hope there is none


If you think madhy is a fake ID & has no experience in army so let it b cz I dont have to show it to civilians or to anyone else what I have done or not done.......... My country knws it, my mother knows it, my flag knows it & my Blood knows it..

I didnt wrote that experience to tell how brave iam or what my men did or how does army functions coz no one can tell you as every operation is dynamic with different requirements. All i wanted to tell is that we need more better equipment,facilities & how those millitants get these facility & not a person who stands in front of bullets just to ensure that our flag is untouched.... just to make sure that the civilian behind him who is there by accident is not hurt.......... You wont get to understand this part.............

Anyways I am not going to put my experiences here from now on cz people make it a subject of debate & all that rather than just trying to understand what person is trying to say..... let this community run as it is... if anyone is intersted in knowing smthng then can pm me.

[17H]

I am sorry that this discussion has degenerated into an argument, but I would rather have this army thing cleared as it is prestige issue. What ever is the recation, this would be my last public bit to counter Madhy.

You have given Strong and confident replies, but as a son of a 4th generation soldier and an almost soldier myself I would like to contradict you on some of the points there. Also you may please assume that some of the civilians do have some knowledge about the armed forces and not as ignorant as the national media.

Your reply to Inder

"As far as their unit is concerned we are not classified as 1,2 or 6 or 19 or 15 or 16

we all are GRENADIERS & when its action time its all about GRENADIERS & in GRENADIERS we have internal units like 1,2,or 16 depending on lot of parameters so when a team is formed its according to situation not according to which unit u belong to they were from 2 GRENADIERS. But I wrote 16 as I like their punch line..."

Grenadiers like other infantry regiments have battalions numbered 1, 2, 3 & so on. Grenadiers in particular have 26 battalions. All officers are posted to a particular Battalion, eg 1 Grenadiers, 12 Bihar, 5 Sikh, etc, All Troops at least forever belong to the Battalion.... so the number is very important, as each battalion has a slightly diffrent culture. A jawan once posted in 16 Grenadiers will retire or die in 16 Grenadiers. An officer might get posted to other Battalion.

The troops could not have been drawn from multiple battalions, because if 16 grenadiers is in Srinagar, there may not be any other Grenadiers Battalion nearby. Even if there is, they always operate on the basis of same Battalion, same Company, Same Platoon, same section. It is very rare to send troops from mixed units/ sub-units, even in large scale operations, as it is bad for morale, camaraderie and teamwork.

Also there is no rank called Sub Lt in the Army. There never was. It was called 2nd Lt, which has now been abolished since 1997. Sub Lt is a Rank in Navy.

On passing out Officers go to their respective Regimental centres for Orientation, then go to their assigned units, where they stay for unspecified period before they can be nominated for YO's course.

Also I do not know if Army issues Silencers for Assault Rifles. Most silenced arms are used by special forces, which are mostly not more than sub-machine guns. Well what is point of using a silenced rifle when your enemy is using unsilenced weapons and what for so that we should not wake up the neighbourhood.

I think your story does not stand up to scrutiny and the age old tenets and practices of the army. This is not to question your military experience. but just that you have not presented it well and have exposed your ignorance of many points in a life of a soldier, which are substantially more improtant than the empty rhetoric of 'my blood' 'my flag' etc. I bet if you know how many flames are their in the crest of the Grenadiers., and which part of the country their troops come from. I wonder what your interactions with other units were, which have casually mentioned as 'Gud'

I request you Mr Madhy to treat all your audience as fully knowledgibe of all matters military and respect the traditions of the Army by not inventing and bluffing just like your age there.

Regards anyway, will continue this through PM's in future.

Ajit

[Risala]

I think your story does not stand up to scrutiny and the age old tenets and practices of the army. This is not to question your military experience. but just that you have not presented it well and have exposed your ignorance of many points in a life of a soldier, which are substantially more improtant than the empty rhetoric of 'my blood' 'my flag' etc. I bet if you know how many flames are their in the crest of the Grenadiers., and which part of the country their troops come from. I wonder what your interactions with other units were, which have casually mentioned as 'Gud'

I request you Mr Madhy to treat all your audience as fully knowledgibe of all matters military and respect the traditions of the Army by not inventing and bluffing just like your age there.

Regards anyway, will continue this through PM's in future.

Ajit

Madhy,dont make a spectacle of your self......though as an ex Cavalry officer I would definitely be intrested in hearing about the advanced combat course...should know a lil about the Infantry as I have attended a couple of Infantry courses...the Weapons Course in Mhow & the Commando's in JLW,Belgaum apart from a few others which were restricted to Armd Corps.

17H....I presume you have a connection with Poona Horse...the Grenadiers compostion largely consisted of Khemkhani Muslims from Rajasthan...excellent soldiers...great troops to lead

[17H]

Thanks Sanjay for coming to my aid there.
Yes My GGGrand Father served with the old 33 in Afghanistan, My GGrandfather served in Palestine in WW1. Grandfather fought and survived against Afrika Crops. My dad though bucked the trend, took an engineering degree and joined EME and then Signals and became the first officer in the family. I Think that spelled the end of the tradition, and even though I would have loved to could not join the Army due to medical reasons. i throughly envy many of my cousins & friends who are now serving. There lies my overly keen interest in the going-ons in 'Fauj'.

Yes Khemkhani Muslims are excellent troops. 1 Sqn of Poona Horse was Khemkhani Muslims, which one I dont remember.

Would love to hear some nostalgic stuff from your days in the Cavalry.

Regards

Ajit

[Biren]

Hi Ajit,

Same story here. My association with fauj goes back to my g8 grand pa days. Lived a significant part in cants and all most all my school friends are in fauj. Pure nostalgia when i hear them. Cld not join but yes when sanjay says excellent soldier.. g8 troops to lead i identify since this i keep hearing for Indian Soldiers. The guys are best, though most of the Officers Crops these days are not upto the mark. Any how Madhy cld have taken premature retirement due to pressing family demands or was it due to health reasons Madhy?

Cheers,
Biren

[17H]

Hi Biren,

Nice to see a lot of guys with Fauji connections, including ex-fauji's themselves. Officer corps are themselves to be blamed for the mess they are in. Had some of the generals after Carriappa stood up to the steady degradation of status and the ethos of the army at the hands of Babu's and Netas, things would probably have been better.

Anyway now that I am not in Fauj, I pass my time at the local rifle club, which meets every alternate sunday.

Happy Shooting.

[BJL]

My grandfather was in the 18th Cav. 3rd course IMA. Before independence and the IMA, he briefly served with the royal navy in the Mediterranean in WWII. I grew up in Mhow. Mr. Madhy, your story and your justifications make no sense.

[sdiversp]

@ Dev,

I recenly checked out a cops revolver here. It was a Ruger service six, not the security six that I liked cause it also shot 357 mags. This one was strangely marked 380 but the bullets the guy had were strange looking 38 caliber bullets that were longer than a baby 9mm.

A 357 Mag revolver will also shoot .38 specials. A .38 is just a tad smaller cartridge than a .357 mag. Leaves a terrible mess in the chambers because of the extra space, but is much easier to shoot and control in a heavier revolver designed to shoot .357.

sdiversp -

[raman909]

isn't it 9mm pistol made by indian ordinance

[Ace_doc]

i agree with 17 H. the pistol is relegated in the army for people who are either in cramped spaces or for people who have a bigger primary weapon / operational role. that aside it is still carried by many offrs while doing house searches as a backup weapon.

[Rottmeister]

To show you how confusing a police arsenal can look like I will give you the example of West Bengal

You missed out on the basics, TC; the police here are even more confused regarding calibers. I remember the flabbergasted look on the face of the Duty Officer of the local police station when I mentioned my air-rifle is a .22 (some a******e from my neighborhood complained about a notorious guy bringing in a gun into a peaceful area) . He was confused on whether you require a license to own one.

[17H]

Hi 17H:
All "Stens" these days are chambered in 9mm. I agree with you that sidearms aren't that visible anymore in the Army. It still has a role as a backup weapon in Close Quarters even if the operator is carrying a carbine.

Ashok

Yes, The stens were always 9 mm but they use the browning 9 mm ammo, equivalent to the .38 ACP, which is suitable only for simple blowback mechanisms due to very low pressures generated, therefore makes sten less powerfull compared to say an MP5.

Regards

Ajit

[rcdoma]

they use the browning 9 mm ammo, equivalent to the .38 ACP
Ajit

I think you mean .380 ACP (9x17mm), the .38 ACP (9x23mm) has more power than the standard 9mm (9x19mm).