New bullpup from Kel-Tec

[mundaire]

Just been launched/ in the process of being launched... a strange looking beast (like all bullpups), but one with (an even stranger) forward ejection system!

[youtube][/youtube]

It's chambered in 7.62 NATO/ .308 Win and seems like their shoulders are taking a bit of pounding from this light weight rifle. Also, don't miss out on how a few of of the spent shells seem to remain in the forward facing ejection tunnel, till another 1 or 2 empties push it out... a jam waiting to happen?

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[tirths]

Post Mortem of ejection system http://world.guns.ru/sniper/rfb-eject.jpg

[cottage cheese]

Just been launched/ in the process of being launched... a strange looking beast (like all bullpups), but one with (an even stranger) forward ejection system!
It's chambered in 7.62 NATO/ .308 Win and seems like their shoulders are taking a bit of pounding from this light weight rifle. Also, don't miss out on how a few of of the spent shells seem to remain in the forward facing ejection tunnel, till another 1 or 2 empties push it out... a jam waiting to happen?
Cheers!
Abhijeet

Hi Abhijeet

Funny thing is our establishment actually is one step ahead in this instance...!!! Wonders!!

The SPG's special counter assault teams are armed with FN F2000, FN P90s and FN FiveSevens... the F2000 pioneered the bullpup forward ejection system some years ago.

The Keltec RFB seems to be a rehash on similar lines, albeit, with a simpler layout of the mechanics.
Here's a detailed cut away video of the real thing in different speeds- http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/videos/rfb_cutaway.wmv

regards,
cc

[nagarifle]

come to think of it (off the thread here) i came across a Pakistani made pistol i think(have the pics somewhere) it had a top ejector, some what like the broadloom's, damm awful.


why not use caseless ammo? the franch do and seems to ok.

[msandhu]

This weird looking Russian pistol GSh-18 which fires 9x19mm PBP armour-piercing ammunition is also top ejections

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg111-e.htm

Cheers
Mandeep

[lazybones]

Slightly OT.
As usual John Browning was ahead of everyone else. His Winchester 1895 had a top ejection system. A friend inherited one of these beauties in .405. I'll try to convince him to let me take pics

Ashok

[BJL]

Also, don't miss out on how a few of of the spent shells seem to remain in the forward facing ejection tunnel, till another 1 or 2 empties push it out... a jam waiting to happen?

Cheers!
Abhijeet

I don't think there should be any jams, if the port were loose and gave the casings enough leeway to get lodged sideways- perhaps, but looking at the cutaway, it seems that its just basically a casing appropriate channel- and since there isn't something that's propelling them through the port- they just seem to fall out whenever they run out of space- or because of recoil movement. Interesting looking piece, haven't ever used any of the bull pup type weapons, need to get on that.

[cottage cheese]

Top ejection is not exactly a unique or novel idea... in fact its pretty old.

Apart from the Winchester open-top lever actions, think of the Luger to start with.

And a host of other handguns of dubious design from that era.

...also Mannlicher Model 1901, Mauser C96, Nambu Type 14, Walther Model 1, Webley&Scott 455 Auto...to name a few.
Coming to modern times, I can think only of the H&K P9.

... This is, of course, top ejection since the topic was broached up and to avoid confusion lets get back to Forward Ejection.

The innovation is primarily to overcome the bullpup's biggest drawback- No south paws.
Firing left handed will result in severe injury as the ejection port would be at the shooters cheek. In something like the SA80, it's not only the empty casings that will assault a lefty cheek but also the reciprocating charging handle, which no doubt would cause severe bruising.

Regarding the issue of empties intersecting the path of a bullet.... the problem as I see, can be solved in three ways:

1. A small deflector ahead of the ejection port- either deflects the empty to one side or simply blocks forward movement beyond the muzzle.
2. The ejection chute can be slightly offset/bent to eject casings at a divergent angle from the bore axis.
3. An angled ramp ahead of the ejection port to...well deflect the oncoming casing.

Certainly something like that or better is being applied. Even mechanical pawls, claws and friction collars would be viable options.

[mundaire]

Well, the top ejection "tunnel" is rather off beat... I'll have to admit to never having seen this sort of tunnel on any rifle before... my doubts about jams were based around foreign material like mud/ sand etc. getting lodged in the ejection tunnel. So lets say the ejection tunnel does get clogged with mud/ dirt during an operation, the first few rounds cycle fine, till the time that the first empty hits the obstruction causing an immediate jam for no apparent reason. Just speculating aloud here...

Speculating a bit more, the tunnel ends just above the barrel - if the barrel is pointed at a downward angle, there may be a possibility of the spent shells falling out in front of bullets exiting the barrel. Doesn't seem like a very desirable outcome.

Anyhow, since the obvious applications of such a rifle are more tactical than sporting, this should be of some concern to potential users...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[shadowphaxone]

Nice video. But i don't get the idea with a front ejection system...best guess is that this is to show a concept design advancement.

I sincerely believe that " PROGRESS for the sake of PROGRESS should not be tolerated ". I mean if an existing design of a system is effective, why change it?

Regards

[BJL]

The main reason for the ejection port being where it is, is to make the rifle ambidextrous. If it were in its traditional location, the casings would be hitting the shooter in the face if used by a lefty.

[shadowphaxone]

ambidextrous????

[mundaire]

ambidextrous????

Yep... so it can be used by both left or right handed shooters without them having to worry about empty brass flying into their face, as would happen if the ejection port was located to the left or right hand side. This issue has been a bit of a bugbear in bullpup designs of the past...

Another solution could be bottom ejection, as has been adopted in at least one of the FN models (I forget which one exactly).

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[msandhu]

Bottom ejection is used by FN P90

http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg13-e.htm
Cheers
MSandhu

[BJL]

Yup, the way I see it, bottom ejection is the only way to go with a bullpup set-up.