Polishing Brass Bullets / Cartridges

[MoA]

Sawbones:

What protective cover?
I shoot everything from blackpowder to precision rifle, and load ammo for most calibers. There is no protective cover.

other than ammo from the likes of Wolf where the cases are steel have never heard of varnish being applied.
Sellior & Bellot ammo is very decent ammo, on a budget. How do you guys polish them? And why?

My serious opinion... (fighting words if you wish)
xx

[Olly]

Lets not get personal here... it's ok... instead, lets research out more facts...

[sawbones]

Hey moa you maybe shooting everything

Please read

1 About the barrakpore mutiny
2 http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ie50581a033
3 MIL-A-388A
4 Wolf laquer coated ammo

we still get ammo in india which is now coated with beeswax

olden time Kynoch 405 and 375 magnum ammo used to be preserved in beeswax

maybe they specified beeswax so as to be politically correct

The very history of indian independance has a large chink of agitation about the cow lard coated cartridges for one and the pork lard coated crtridges for another


regards sawbones

[MoA]

We are talking about modern ammo, not stuff from 1857 or as I pointed out Wolf ammo.
.22 ammo does have a lube on it... as might some lead bullets. But FMJ... nope not a chance unless you're buying ammo that is at least from the 1930's or even earlier.
And you still havent answered how or why you polish ammo at your range.

[sawbones]

UV Adhesives Reduce Production Time

Improving product quality, reducing unit costs, simply solving a bonding problem; these are the usual reasons that companies look to change the adhesives used in their manufacturing process. Most will never have thought that selecting the right product can reduce work in progress and improve production throughput. Yet these are the major benefits accruing to many manufacturers selecting products from the advanced adhesives range offered by Axil Adhesives. As one part of their business, Axil Adhesives distributes products in the UK manufactured by Hernon of the USA.

One of their major customers is an aerospace and defense contractor and USA’s largest ammunition manufacturer. For obvious reasons,the Company must remain anonymous for the purpose of this article. As you would expect, this is a highly automated process, with each production line able to produce 1200 rounds per minute. There are several processes within the line that use sealants, but the one considered in this article is the application of a thin waterproofing seal at the mouth of the cartridge.

Before inserting the actual projectile into the casing, a small bead of sealant is run around the rim of the cartridge to provide a waterproof seal. This has to be dry before the projectile can be inserted. Traditionally, the material used has been a solvent based product and the cartridges have to be left to dry before the next production process can be started. Depending on the method of drying (air dry or assisted drying) the cartridges may need to pass into a holding area for a time period between 20 minutes and a few hours. Considering that each production line produces 1200 rounds per minute, it is easy to assess the amount of work in progress tied up in this single activity, let alone the constant exposure to VOCs experienced by the employees of the Company.

Some years ago, the American Military launched their “Green Bullet Initiative,” which sought to remove all environmentally unfriendly materials from the ammunition that they used. Hernon Manufacturing, as a close partner of the Department of Defense, was at the forefront of the initiative and their products were rated “the best alternate casemouth sealant” (SERDP Report on Non-Ozone Depleting Sealants for Ammunitions Applications January 1997). As a result of this, they were asked to visit the above factory and recommend a better solution.

As leaders in the field of solvent free technology, using anaerobics, UV cure or a variety of other systems, Hernon was quickly able to see that a move to a solvent free system would offer massive advantages to the Company. Even their most basic system, a room temperature cure product, would offer significantly reduced drying times and zero VOC emissions.

However, in spite of the success of their existing products, the R & D department at Hernon have developed the next generation of bullet sealants based on ultraviolet cure technology that offer drastic reductions in cure time.

UV curing adhesives and sealants, as the name suggests, only cure when they are exposed to a high intensity source of ultraviolet light. They usually cure to a transparent film and are consequently used extensively in industries needing to bond glass, for example medical products or glass topped furniture. In order for the adhesive to cure, one of the substrates being bonded needs to be transparent to ultraviolet light.

For this application, the top of the cartridge is open and it is relatively simple for a strategically placed UV light to cure the product. The most significant advantage of the UV cure system, however, is the extremely rapid cure time. Each cartridge only needs to be exposed to the light source for 3 seconds and the seal is completely dry. The UV source can be placed on the line between the adhesive application activity and the projectile insertion activity and the cure becomes an in line process. No longer do cartridges have to be diverted to a holding area and this not only reduces work in progress, but it increases production throughput by allowing more efficient factory and process flows to be designed. Against these savings, the price and running costs of a UV curing system pale into insignificance.

Recommending such new adhesive technology, however, does not offer a complete solution to the customer and it was at this point that the Hernon engineers came into play. Again, using their experience of all types of equipment used throughout the ammunition industry, they were able to develop two types of UV curing sealants i.e. applicable to the inner or outer mouth to ensure that any ammunition company could use their existing machinery in conjunction with the new UV technology. A number of small modifications would be required, but these can be carried out at minimal cost.

So, in return for minimal capital investment, the ammunition companies are now able to generate dramatic reductions in work in progress by using the next generation UV curing sealant technology. But the advantages are more far reaching than that:

Reduce cost of adhesive
The Hernon product is 100% sealant, whereas the traditional product is 45-60% solvent. The number of cartridges sealed per litre is therefore greatly increased.

Reduce machine maintenance
The UV cure sealant does not dry in the machine reservoirs, nor in valves, feed lines or dispensing heads. There is no need for a machine clean out of sealant

I rest my case

sawbones

[penpusher]

Sawbones,

There is little or no chance of any kerosene making it's way into the gap between the bullet and the cartridge neck unless the bullet is loose in the first place.Even if the ammo is kept in kerosene for a length of time,I have my doubts that it would degrade.I took apart a .315 cartridge and just to avoid the trouble of cleaning the rifle after firing the primer,I decided to leave the primed cartridge with water in it,overnight.Guess what,the next day the primer ignited despite having been in direct contact with water for several hours.

If kerosene does make it's way to the powder,I would think that it would render it inert.In other words,a dud round.

What would be achieved by polishing ammo before shooting it except for shinny empties.Why does S&B ammo specifically require polishing?

.22LR KF ammo is coated with what seems to be wax,also, some times the wax is a bit excessive.I do remove this before I shoot but then all that is required is a rub with a dry cloth.

No offense meant but I am just a bit mystified by your post.

[sawbones]

hey penpusher
no offence taken
a few posts back when i mentioned a protective layer in a cartridge and esteemed member of the forum made a personal judgmental comment (since edited by mod ) also he went on to say that there is no such thing as a protective layer on a cartridge

Well your story about the cap firing after being in water overnight just proves my point , the cap is manufactured by putting in the priming compound and then varnishing it and then the cartridge is loaded after the varnish dries , this is specific for the primer part .

The same does not hold true for the gunpowder charge. How the powder will react to moisture or kerosene depends entirely on the chemical that you are wetting. During manufacture the cartridge is sealed against moistue by crimping, applysing aphultum, teflon varnish, or the later modern process which i havecopied and pasted above as my freind does not want any historical facts, if you go to the Cabelas website you will find a product called ' bullet sealant ' on sale at this moment .

Kerosene is a solvent , combustible and cutting oil not a lube, it will enhance a nitrate.

I will not go further into the specifics of petroleum fluids mixed into chemicals over here in a public forum as this knowledge is rather damaging , you may pm me for details.

I see your location is Punjab ,try getting some pot or cal nitrate as fertilizer and you might find out the story ,I have difficult time getting it for my mango orchard.

Yes do clean your cartridges just before shooting as it is good for your gun we dont polish the S&B at our range but the instructor insists that we remove the lube before we shoot I dont know why.

ya olly I agree lets do some more research

sawbones

[penpusher]

hey penpusher, How the powder will react to moisture or kerosene depends entirely on the chemical that you are wetting. During manufacture the cartridge is sealed against moistue by crimping, applysing aphultum, teflon varnish, or the later modern process which i havecopied and pasted above as my freind does not want any historical facts, if you go to the Cabelas website you will find a product called ' bullet sealant ' on sale at this moment .Kerosene is a solvent , combustible and cutting oil not a lube, it will enhance a nitrate.

It might change the chemical composition in an unpleasant way.So instead of a controlled burn there might get a detonation.

Yes do clean your cartridges just before shooting as it is good for your gun we dont polish the S&B at our range but the instructor insists that we remove the lube before we shoot I dont know why.

.22lr?

[lazybones]

Ely TenX ammo is still lubed with Tallow and Beeswax, same as it was 150 years ago.
Note the use of Tallow. Guess some people never learn
Ely say that the lube is to prevent misfeeds and flyers. They claim their research has established that lead oxide in a bullet is the primary cause of flyers
Ashok