Side arm of Indian Armed forces

[Sakobav]

marksman

Arun Nehru had got a very decent price also but due to one or the other reason this proposal was shotdown. Back then it would have been great deal since India could have bartered the deal instead of paying hard cash. But you are dead on the reason for jamming is bad ammo. I did fire a Glock in India and every other bullet jammed and amazing and sad thing was the police officers around me were trained to take this in stride as its expected. No wonder per madhy above every body shuns pistols and rightfully.
Why risk your life ?

madhy

My information is all here-say although we do a quiet a bit of defense folks at this forum and off course some members here have knowledge based on their experience. Aside from usual jingoism its always a pleasure to read candid remarks on IA and its weapons. I hope IOFB can improve their manufacturing processes they should compare their products with the big red dragon.

Cheers

My last outing with 9mm was was with SIG P 226. The pistol is light or my grips were incorrect I was shooting all over the place. But it all paled compared to the sub sonic boom of .45 pistol which was being fired in the neighboring booth on the range

[hks2056]

9 mm is best pistol round for use against humans.it has superior penetration than .45 or 10mm round. More the penetration more is the extent of wound channel and resulting haemorrhage leading to incapacitation. Indira Gandhi was shot with 9mm carbine by her body guards. All shots pssed through her as was confirmed during autospy. Even U S Secret service carries 9mm weapons for proximate security of US president. The iconic H & K carbine in 9mm and Glock in 9mm are preferred choices worldover. .45 and 10mm have lesser velocity and reduced penetration. In practical experience 9mm produces better results on average. What 30-06 is to rifle the 9mm is to the pistols.

[msandhu]

Hi hks2056 ,
9mm is indeed a good round but it cannot be said to be best. Yes the full jacketed has better penetration than other but if we use hollow point, then its equal or slightly less affective than .40 or .45 or .357sig. As far secret services is concerned, it think they user .40 cal sigs. .45 is usually considered a better man stopper and probably best self defense round. In fact many SWAT and some special forces do use .45 and US Army was also looking to change from 9mm to .45.
There are many other factors go into determining effectiveness of a round other than caliber like type of round (full metal, hollow point , AP etc) , charge (124 gr or 147 gr etc)
Cheers
Mandeep

[Sakobav]

Second Mandeeps post, US special forces are using .45 these days. One thing that 9mm pistols typically have is a larger ammo quantity in a Magazine. Some folks would prefer more bullets say 13 of 9mm over 8 rounds of .45.

Best

[madhy]

Second Mandeeps post, US special forces are using .45 these days. One thing that 9mm pistols typically have is a larger ammo quantity in a Magazine. Some folks would prefer more bullets say 13 of 9mm over 8 rounds of .45.

Best

Edited my content & wiped it our as it does not fit this site/forum.

[dev]

Nice to know the real facts about what the army feels and uses in combat. Keep them coming Madhy and let us buy you a round if you are in Delhi sometime. Thank You for keeping us safe.

Dev

[madhy]

Nice to know the real facts about what the army feels and uses in combat. Keep them coming Madhy and let us buy you a round if you are in Delhi sometime. Thank You for keeping us safe.

Dev

Hi,

Anytime Dev. I am in Delhi only I left Army in jan 09 & into civil life now but still have lots of experience of IA but only from my regiment's perspective cz frankly speaking I had only 3-4 interactions with other regiments but they were quite gud.

If you wanna gift me something then please take my choices down 1. anything with 9mm 2. .45 3. .32

now whatever you wanna gift me is ok

[17H]

Hi all,
Though I dont have any military experience, but I have been closely associated with the Indian Army, having lived most of my life among them, and still follow many of the developments through many of my friends who are still there.
Officers generally used to carry side arms during battle along with a cane as it was considered below their status to carry a rifle during both world wars and as late as 1962 chinese incursion. Soon it was felt that the pistol, whatever be its calibre and rate of fire was inherently useless in the era of assault rifle, which could decimate the enemy before coming into pistol range. Also a man armed only with a pistol could not contribute to the volume of fire at targets at rifle ranges. Officers then started carrying light weapons such as british made stens, which fired pistol ammunition, were much lighter than rifles and could be effective at around 100 mtrs, though the stens used a blowback mechanism, which meant that more powerful 9mm rounds could not be used in them, which further limited their use.

Army was using stens in Counter Insurgency ops till very recently, when they decided that an assalt rifle was a much better choice. Some like Madhy still used pistols, but their active usage has declined, as it is a burden, occupies an extra point on the webbing, and you have to carry extra magazine for it, which may not be used ultimately.
Also most officers in CI ops now travel with buddies, who fire in quick succession, which allows sufficient time for the other buddies to reload.

Side arms such as IOF made brownings are still carried by the Military Police and ADC's to senior Generals, who need both hands to be free to carry a notebook or some other paraphrenelia.

Special forces, who fight at much closer quarters found some use of pistols but later abandoned them in favour of MP5's, which fire a much more powerful cartrige and can lay much heavier and accurate fire. Recently special forces have switched to Israely made Tavor TAR21, which is a Bullpup design, has the compactness of a sub-machine gun and a firepower and range of a rifle.

Only units where the pistol is still being actively used are the Cavalry/ Armoured units, which prefer to use pistols due to cramped interiors of the tank, which makes manuevering anything larger difficult, and the small hatches and loading points from where the crew can fire at advancing enemy infantry in case of being stranded and surrounded by them. But last I heard they may also switch to the compact assault version of INSAS or AK56. Airforce pilots also carry the pistols for an emergency if they have to land in enemy territory.

Side arms have died a natural death in face of superior fire power and have been sidelined to ceremonial uniforms or limited use as far as Armed forces are concerned.

[lazybones]

Hi 17H:
All "Stens" these days are chambered in 9mm. I agree with you that sidearms aren't that visible anymore in the Army. It still has a role as a backup weapon in Close Quarters even if the operator is carrying a carbine.

Ashok

[madhy]

Hi,

Edited my content as this community has nothing to do with it so ommitted the facts from the site

[dev]

Nice to know the real facts about what the army feels and uses in combat. Keep them coming Madhy and let us buy you a round if you are in Delhi sometime. Thank You for keeping us safe.

Dev

Hi,

Anytime Dev. I am in Delhi only I left Army in jan 09 & into civil life now but still have lots of experience of IA but only from my regiment's perspective cz frankly speaking I had only 3-4 interactions with other regiments but they were quite gud.

If you wanna gift me something then please take my choices down 1. anything with 9mm 2. .45 3. .32

now whatever you wanna gift me is ok

Ahh the round I wanted to but come in 30ml,60ml,330ml and so forth, pick any

Dev

[madhy]

Nice to know the real facts about what the army feels and uses in combat. Keep them coming Madhy and let us buy you a round if you are in Delhi sometime. Thank You for keeping us safe.

Dev

Hi,

Anytime Dev. I am in Delhi only I left Army in jan 09 & into civil life now but still have lots of experience of IA but only from my regiment's perspective cz frankly speaking I had only 3-4 interactions with other regiments but they were quite gud.

If you wanna gift me something then please take my choices down 1. anything with 9mm 2. .45 3. .32

now whatever you wanna gift me is ok

Ahh the round I wanted to but come in 30ml,60ml,330ml and so forth, pick any

Dev

o ok

so I belive 750 ML would work fine for me..

[mundaire]

Madhy,

I thought I may as well point out the fact that you wish to remain incognito but have posted enough info here for anyone (presently or formerly) associated with your unit to be able to identify you...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

[madhy]

Madhy,

I thought I may as well point out the fact that you wish to remain incognito but have posted enough info here for anyone (presently or formerly) associated with your unit to be able to identify you...

Cheers!
Abhijeet

Hi Abhijeet


This info will not remain here for all times......this is just for you to read once & tommorow it would go away so no trace & even if someone copies it then No one blame me as these similar opeations happens too often so no issues I can manage that. Moreover I am no longer in IA so should not be a issue apart from the fact that if someone intensionally would like to get me courtmartialed which i dont think someone would do cz I am no harm to anyone.


Njoy

[Tai Ahom]

The army engaged in CI Ops in the Northeast also have fewer takers for side arms. All the officers in the field carry AKs not even Insas. And they have to deposit the AKs when the move to peace stations. They can only retain the Insas with them. AK is issued to them as long as they are in the CI area.

Bhaskar