Another German favorite

[TwoRivers]

Herb: Got the book, but can't find any reference to the Danzig arsenal, or any of the others, producing any sporters, or .22s. The German .22 training rifles were all produced by non-state factories, and after WWI. I would think if there were any number of known state arsenal produced sporters, they would be a highly desirable and rare collector's category by themselves, more highly prized than even Original Oberndorf sporters. Cheers.

[herb]

TwoRivers : I always thought Danzig made sporters, I have Speeds book and he does't mention any thing about Danzig sporters, You have confirmed that Olson's book does not say anything about this. Let me try to find out from where I got this information.

Most of the German guild rifles I saw either were unmarked or had the name of a maker. These guns have "Gewehrfabrik Danzig" on the left wall, so it is not just one gun made by a local smith as many of them have surfaced. Was "Gewehrfabrik Danzig" name of one of the local smiths?

If it was a converted military rifle by one of the German smiths after the war it should have either no markings or military markings like most i.e. Danzig 1917 etc like in the below photos (taken from the net) and they also had gew 98 or something similiar on the left receiver wall

Military Danzig 1905


Military Danzig 1915


The proof mark on the left of the serial on this military rifle is also there on the sporter.


Military Stock


The same proof mark on my sporter and the left wall says "Gewehrfabrik Danzig" instead of "Gew98" although same font



I am not sure local German gunsmiths would remove all markings and then remark with arsenal name and proof mark, assuming "Gewehrfabrik Danzig" is the name of the arsenal. Again I could be wrong.

I have asked this question on a few other forums and am waiting for an answer, will post as soon as I hear some thing.

Cheers!
Herb

[TwoRivers]

Herb: Gewehrfabrik Danzig , i.e. Rifle Factory Danzig, was the name of the arsenal. The marking, receiver ring vs. sidewall raises questions. Danzig made both rifles and carbines, your rifle has the small ring carbine action, but not the straight taper carbine barrel . It would be strange for the factory to produce straight taper barrels for the carbines, but then fit sporters with a shortened M98 rifle barrels. All military markings were routinely removed from the actions used to build sporters from military rifles after WWI. Rifles had to be reproved, and removing the military markings legitimized possession of state property, or at least made that impossible to prove. To draw conclusions from an (American) ad requires a huge leap of faith. All we should conclude from the W-R advert, is that the (nicely refinished) rifle is a Mauser-actioned sporter, built on an action made by Danzig arsenal. There are some question, but assumptions based on questions should not lead to conclusions. Ads are written by sales people, and I may add, often extremely ignorant ones, not by experts in the field. Even factories often write the dumbest things in their ads, or owner manuals. Something to think about is, that the die to stamp the receiver ring of the rifle would not fit the smaller diameter receiver ring of the carbine, and Danzig therefore marked the sidewall. Last but not least, it would seem odd that Mauser would license the German government to build sporting rifles in direct competition. Cheers.

[herb]

TwoRivers:

Looks like Danzig made sporter's from the answers I got. The year of manufacture is probably 1919 and not 1914 as I thought.

I posted this question (along with pictures) to the German Gun Collectors association and below is the answer I received. I see that Jon Speed has also been copied on this. Last time when I asked a question about oberndorf mauser it was Jon who replied as he also answers on behalf of German Gun Collectors Association. I have xxx'ed out the email addresses as it would be impolite to post the email addresses

Axel who replied on behalf of GGCA is also a member of gunboards I think.
--------------------------------
Re: Danzig Sporter, inquiry #2009 from <[email protected]>?
From: Axel xxxxxxxxx ([email protected])
Sent: March 1, 2009 12:02:20 PM
To: Dietrich Apel ([email protected]); Jon Speed ([email protected]); [email protected]

At first glance this rifle seems to be a typical post-WWI conversion. It is made on a Kar 98a carbine small ring action, but fitted with an unusual barrel that looks like a turned-down Gew98 rifle barrel due to the step, the Kar98a got a tapered one without steps. It is stocked in the usual around-WWI Suhl style with round pistol grip, side panels, wedge-fastened and "schnabel"-tipped foreend. But in this case the inscription on the receiver wall "Waffenfabrik Danzig" tells it was really made in the former government arsenal in Danzig, now Gdansk in Poland, probably in 1919. During WWI the Danzig arsenal made thousnds of both 98 rifles and carbines for the German army, but the military issue ones were marked "Danzig" only on the receiver ring, with "Kar98" on the receiver wall. After the end of hostilities Danzig was, like the rest of West Prussia, seperated from Germany, but not given to Poland, as it's citizens were more than 90% German, but installed as a seperate entity "Free City of Danzig" under supervision of the "League of Nations". Apparently the now city owned former German government arsenal tried to survive by converting to "Civilian" production, but in 1920 it was dissolved and all it's machinery and stocks transferred to the Polish arsenal at Radom.
Waidmannsheil!
Axel Eichendorff

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Also when I posted this question to nitroexpress forum, dons who is a member there and also very knowledgeable about Mauser history mentioned in his reply that Danzig made sporters.

Cheers
Herb

[Vikram]

A very nice rifle,Herb.Always a pleasure to see a nice rifle that too in the hands of a gun lover.

I take it that it's in the 8X57 IS chambering? Shoot any game with it? How is the performance?Thanks.

Best-
Vikram

[herb]

Thanks folks, glad you liked the rifle.

Vikram: The chambering is 8x57 IS. I have never shot this rifle, but it is a joy to handle.

Herb

[msandhu]

Thats a beautiful gun ..
Cheers
Mandeep

[penpusher]

Herb,

You seem to have found a nice rifle that is not too common,considering the replies to your queries.Lucky man.Now go and shoot it and post some photos here

[TwoRivers]

Well, Herb, Axel provided the answer. So Danzig built sporters for a few years following WWI, probably from left-over parts, until the machinery was moved by the Poles. Learn something new every day! Seems that that is a little known fact. Cheers.