Use of a weapon for self-defence

ebenezer · Post by **ebenezer** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:57 pm

Hi all,

Want to know if a firearm endorsed as 'for target practice' in the licence could be used for self-defence. For instance, if a person who owns a gun for sport purpose is mugged, can he/she use it for self-protection. If done, can it be justified? Will the police or court accept it?

Ebenezer

diskaon · Post by **diskaon** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:23 pm

logically and i guess legally you can use the gun for self defense..

police will accept nothing.. even if you have a license that says " please kill whom you want" still they will try to pressurize you and make you a criminal...they take the "self defense" issue a little personally i guess...

diskaon...

raj · Post by **raj** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:04 pm

diskaon";p="49551 wrote: logically and i guess legally you can use the gun for self defense..
police will accept nothing.. even if you have a license that says " please kill whom you want" still they will try to pressurize you and make you a criminal...they take the "self defense" issue a little personally i guess..
diskaon...

i agree with you dsikaon...

TenX · Post by **TenX** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:55 pm

Here is a joke to support Diskaon...

In an International competition for Police from around the world, held at Siberia, the Indian police were taking part. The race was to capture a Siberian tiger in the shortest time.
First, the American cops went into the forest and came back with a Siberian tiger within 2 hours. The Russians, who followed next, had to fare better, being on Mother land, and managed to come back with one within 1 hour.
The Indians went next, and as people waited and waited, they did not return although the day was getting to a close. Finally, a rescue team went into the forest to trace the Indian cops.. and finally found them. They had tied a bear to a tree and was whipping it, saying "Accept you are a Tiger ... Accept"!

Having said that, Indian law is very hard on those who 'take the law in their hands', and have even arrested women who killed the rapist! Protection, it seems, is not considered much, especially when it comes to the use of firearms, unless you are well connected

msandhu · Post by **msandhu** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:54 pm

Is there any such endorsement on firearm like 'for target practice' or 'for self defence' ? All i know is that the license is to keep and carry a firearm and its up to the user how he wants to use it.
Regards
Mandeep

ebenezer · Post by **ebenezer** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:25 pm

msandhu";p="63370 wrote: Is there any such endorsement on firearm like 'for target practice' or 'for self defence' ? All i know is that the license is to keep and carry a firearm and its up to the user how he wants to use it.
Regards
Mandeep

Yes, there is. The endorsement in my licence reads: Granted fresh arms licence to possess one NP bore rifle for target practice with area validity of Tamilnadu. This is based on what we mention in the 'purpose for which licence is required' column in the arms licence application.
Regards,
Ebenezer

msandhu · Post by **msandhu** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:28 pm

probably i missed reading it then. I remember putting Self defense" or something like that on application but do not remember what is written on my license.
Cheers
Mandeep

The Doc · Post by **The Doc** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:12 pm

msandhu";p="63370 wrote: Is there any such endorsement on firearm like 'for target practice' or 'for self defence' ?

I guess it varies from state to state . My license doesn't mention anything like this.

RP.

amk · Post by **amk** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:52 pm

There are 3 categories of licenses; protection, target/sport and display. You will get a license for one of these three and your usage depends on this. However, logically one can use a legally acquired firearm to protect life in case of a threat. The same way as you can use a knife, stick, stone, etc... This is my reasoning and please don't take this as legal advice.

shadow · Post by **shadow** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:08 pm

Dear Comrades,
Is there anything that you can do while carrying a CCW with valid licence in a hotel or shopping mall with metal detectors? In Mumbai the security has really been stepped up after 26/11 & each of the 4/5 star hotel you go to or even malls or multiplexes one is thoroughly frisked... And the guards there am sure have no hints of Arms Act. What if in that condition, the security manager there asks you to surrender the weapon & take it back during exit? The whole purpose of carrying a CCW is lost here.
As debated earlier, if even 10 out of 500 people killed during 26/11 had sidearms, the disaster could have been controlled. But what if they were stopped at entry itself stating that firearms are not allowed inside the hotel?
Request you to kindly throw some light on the above.
Cheers,
Rup

shadow · Post by **shadow** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:07 pm

Dear friends,
In continuation with the above, is there a provision wherein inspite of having valid licence of CCW for SD, the same can be restricted to be carried in a hotel / mall / multiplex? If not, on what basis can the security of that place stop & restrict you from entering?
Cheers!

amk · Post by **amk** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:30 pm

There are certain built in restrictions in your license, read the arms act and the experts here may be able to elaborate further on it.

And hotels, malls, etc. also can prohibit arms as they are in a way private premises, not too sure about that though.

Olly · Post by **Olly** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:54 pm

I can tell you about Vasant Continental Hotel in Delhi where I inquired about this. If you are carrying a weapon there is no chance that you can sneak through into the hotel as the security is very very tight and strict. There is a professional body scan too. Therefore you must tell them yourself that you are carrying. They will then ask you to produce your license and after inspection take you to the lockers area where you will be required to deposit / lock up the weapon and take it back when you leave the hotel.

No experience with any of the malls. Guess, they really do not have any formal guidelines. It is the whim and fancy of the security officer of what he thinks and does...

amk · Post by **amk** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:04 pm

Olly";p="65601 wrote: I can tell you about Vasant Continental Hotel in Delhi where I inquired about this. If you are carrying a weapon there is no chance that you can sneak through into the hotel as the security is very very tight and strict. There is a professional body scan too. Therefore you must tell them yourself that you are carrying.

It's a similar situation at most hotels here too, no chance of sneaking through.

I don't know if they allow you to deposit your gun in their lockers, never tried it.

A few months ago before Kasab and his mates spoiled it for everyone I was allowed to carry in a multiplex. I asked the manager to allow me to deposit it but he made a photocopy of my license and asked me to carry the gun in to the cinema hall.

AMK

shadow · Post by **shadow** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:11 pm

Dear friends,
Thanks for your inputs.
However I come back to the same point refering to one of the threads which had mentioned that even if 10 guests at the Taj had CCW, the disaster could have been controlled. So even if RKBA is put in action, it will still be the sole discretion of the security managers of hotels/malls/multiplexes to let you in only once the firearm is deposited with them.
Olly, how would it have helped, if God forbid, there was an attack at Vasant Hotel with you being there - inspite of being trained in handling the firearm, inspite of being a good shot, but weaponless? Please forgive me for stating this example which one would even want to think about in getting, but this question is purely to understand as to how does one deal with it?
Yes AMK I read the Arms Act in detail once again, but it brings me back to the above scenario. So does SD only apply when you are either in your house / property / car etc. and in alleys & streets and not when you are in someone else's property (read hotels / malls / multiplexes) where the discretion is solely that of the property owner with an exception of terrorists who can enter at free will?
Cheers,
Rup

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